1 IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO 3 CIVIL UNLIMITED JURISDICTION 4 5 MYDRA MCGARR, ) ) 6 Plaintiff, ) ) 7 v. ) No. CGC-08-478204 ) 8 TENDERLOIN HOUSING CLINIC, ) INC., CHANEL SAMUEL, and DOES ) 9 1 to 25, inclusive, ) ) 10 Defendants. ) _____________________________ ) 11 12 13 14 15 16 DEPOSITION OF 17 LAURE McELROY 18 SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 19 FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 6, 2009 20 21 ATKINSON-BAKER, INC. COURT REPORTERS 22 (800) 288-3376 www.depo.com 23 24 REPORTED BY: PATRICIA E. SEGOVIA, CSR NO. 8416 25 FILE NO.: A30113B 0001 1 IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 IN AND FOR THE COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO 3 CIVIL UNLIMITED JURISDICTION 4 5 MYDRA MCGARR, ) ) 6 Plaintiff, ) ) 7 v. ) No. CGC-08-478204 ) 8 TENDERLOIN HOUSING CLINIC, ) INC., CHANEL SAMUEL, and DOES ) 9 1 to 25, inclusive, ) ) 10 Defendants. ) _____________________________ ) 11 12 13 14 15 16 Deposition of LAURE McELROY, taken on behalf 17 of Plaintiff, at the Law Offices of WILLIAM E. WEISS, 18 130 Sutter Street, 7th Floor, San Francisco, California 19 95008, commencing at 9:30 a.m., Friday, February 6, 20 2009, before PATRICIA E. SEGOVIA, CSR NO. 8416. 21 22 23 24 25 0002 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 4 LAW OFFICES OF WILLIAM E. WEISS By: WILLIAM E. WEISS 5 130 Sutter Street 7th Floor 6 San Francisco, California 94104 (415)362-6765 7 8 FOR THE DEFENDANTS: 9 KENNICK & ASSOCIATES By: JOHN ELLIS 10 110 E. Wilshire Avenue Suite 401 11 Fullerton, California 92832 (714) 992-6600 12 13 ALSO PRESENT: AMY SPIERING. 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0003 1 I N D E X 2 WITNESS: LAURE McELROY 3 EXAMINATION PAGE 4 MR. WILLIAM E. WEISS 5 5 EXHIBITS: 6 No. Item Page 7 (None.) 8 QUESTIONS WITNESS INSTRUCTED NOT TO ANSWER: 9 (None.) 10 INFORMATION TO BE SUPPLIED: 11 (None.) 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0004 1 LAURE McELROY, 2 having first been duly sworn, was 3 examined and testified as follows: 4 BY MR. WEISS: 5 Q. Please state your name and address for the 6 record, please. 7 A. Laure McElroy -- 8 MR. ELLIS: Wait. Wait. Can we -- 9 MR. WEISS: What? 10 MR. ELLIS: Do we have to give an address? 11 Can we gave work on the same agreement as yesterday? 12 MR. WEISS: Sure. 13 MR. ELLIS: As long as you are an employee of 14 THC, they are going to contact you through me. And if 15 you are no longer employed at THC and if this goes to 16 trial, then at that point we might have to provide your 17 personal address to them so they can contact you. 18 THE WITNESS: Okay. 19 MR. ELLIS: Fair? 20 MR. WEISS: Yes, I'll agree to that. 21 BY MR. WEISS: 22 Q. Ms. McElroy -- 23 A. Uh-huh. 24 Q. -- my name is Bill Weiss. We just met a 25 couple of minutes ago. I represent Mydra McGarr in this 0005 1 lawsuit. And I'm going to ask you some questions about 2 various things concerning my client, Chanel Samuel, 3 various other procedures and policies of the Tenderloin 4 Housing Clinic. We will just try to use the letters THC 5 so you'll kind of know what we are talking about. So 6 before we get into all that, let me ask you have you 7 ever had your deposition taken before? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. When was the last one? 10 A. Do you want a year? 11 Q. Can you remember one? 12 A. Maybe 20 years ago. 13 Q. That's quite a while. What was that 14 involving? 15 A. Yes. It was a wrongful death lawsuit. My 16 father. 17 Q. I'll go over the rules again. Even though I 18 know you might have had time to talk to Mr. Ellis, I 19 can't ask you about your conversations with him, that's 20 confidential. 21 So you are under oath. And even though you 22 are sitting here in my office and it's informal, it's 23 the same oath that you would take as if you were sitting 24 in a court testifying. Do you understand that? 25 A. Uh-huh. 0006 1 Q. You have to answer out loud. 2 A. Sorry. Yes. 3 Q. One of the other rules is that you have to 4 speak out loud so the court reporter can take down what 5 you are saying. The court reporter is typing down 6 everything that's said here during the deposition and it 7 will be put into a transcript. You can review the 8 transcript later, if you'd like, and make any changes 9 that you want. 10 However, if you make any changes, we might 11 comment on them later. So you want to try to give it 12 your best shot today. 13 We should only speak one at a time so the 14 record doesn't get confused. And, again, you want to 15 speak out loud instead of saying yes -- I'm sorry, don't 16 go "uh-huh" or "uh-uh" rather than "yes" or "no" and 17 that type of thing or try to answer with a nod of your 18 head or gesture, that can't really be reported in a 19 transcript. 20 If I ask you a question that doesn't make 21 sense or you don't understand, just let me know because 22 every time you answer a question, it's assumed that you 23 understood what you were being asked. If you say you 24 don't understand or you don't get it, just say so and 25 I'll rephrase it so you do. 0007 1 If you need to take a break at any time, at 2 any time during the morning or during your deposition, 3 let's me know and I'll's be glad to give you a break. 4 It's no problem. 5 Okay. One other thing, you don't have to 6 guess or speculate about anything. If you can't 7 remember a specific date or time, just say so. And if 8 you can give us an estimate, that will be good enough, 9 just qualify your answer and let us know that it's an 10 estimate. 11 So can you give me in a thumbnail capsule your 12 educational background? 13 A. Starting from -- 14 Q. High school? College? Whatever? 15 A. Well, I went to San Domenico High School in 16 Marin. 17 Q. When did you graduate from there? 18 A. 1992. 19 Q. Okay. 20 A. Then I went to Laney Junior College and I went 21 to Vista Junior College -- Laney in Oakland, Vista in 22 Berkeley -- then I went to City, San Francisco City 23 College. And that's it. 24 Q. Did you get any degrees from any of those 25 institutions? 0008 1 A. No. 2 Q. Any particular area of study that you had? 3 A. General ed, liberal arts. 4 Q. And when was the last time you attended any 5 community college, what year? 6 A. 2004 I believe. 7 Q. Okay. And can you give me a summary of your 8 work history for just the 21st century? 9 A. Let's see. I worked at Homeless Prenatal 10 Program. 11 Q. What? 12 A. It's a nonprofit in San Francisco called 13 Homeless Prenatal Program. 14 Q. What did you do there? 15 A. I was a community health worker. 16 Q. And what years did you work there, do you 17 think? 18 A. 2007 to the middle of 2008. 19 Q. And did you work any place between the year 20 2000 and 2007? 21 A. No. 22 Q. What were you doing in those years? 23 A. I was disabled. I was on SSI. I was disabled 24 and I was on Social Security disability. 25 Q. And after you finished your work at the 0009 1 Prenatal Center, where did you work next? 2 A. THC. 3 Q. When did you first become employed at THC? 4 A. In April 2008. 5 Q. And what is your position there? 6 A. Case manager. 7 Q. What does a case manager do? 8 A. Well -- 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague. Just give him 10 in general terms. 11 BY MR. WEISS: 12 Q. What are the job duties of a case manager at 13 the THC? 14 A. Case managers assist tenants -- case managers 15 assist tenants in finding the services that they need, 16 finding social services. 17 Q. Anything else? 18 A. That's pretty broad. 19 Q. Maybe you can break that down. Within the 20 context of helping tenants finding social services, what 21 would you do? 22 A. If a tenant needed help with their rent, I 23 would find them back rent assistance. 24 If a tenant needs help find primary health 25 care, then I help the tenant find primary care. 0010 1 If a tenant needs help with finding therapy, 2 then I help them, I help them with that. 3 Q. All right. How do you know the sources to 4 refer people to, how do you learn about those? 5 A. Through experience, personal as well job 6 experience, and also through, you know, the internet, 7 resource manuals, things like that. 8 Q. Did you receive any training from the THC to 9 do your job? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And describe your training, please? 12 A. Our training was mostly on -- mostly on 13 policies and procedures. We have three days of -- three 14 days of intense policy and procedure training and the 15 rest is -- yes. 16 Q. So they have a policy manual and you kind of 17 go through the manual, is that what you are saying? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Who conducted your training? 20 A. A man named Jeff Buckley. 21 Q. What was his position at the THC? 22 A. When I was hired, he was the support services 23 manager? 24 Q. So you mentioned three days on their policy 25 manual. Any other type of training? 0011 1 A. I don't know what you mean. 2 Q. Well, you said that they review the policy 3 manual in three days of intensive training to learn the 4 policies and how things are supposed to go. Did you 5 receive any other training on how to do your job? 6 A. We have monthly trainings. We have employee 7 trainings. 8 Q. What goes on in those typically? 9 A. Well, there is a topic and usually there is a 10 guest speaker who comes in and we are trained on the 11 topic. 12 Q. Now, do you learn how to recognize problems, 13 people using drugs, for example? 14 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague. Incomplete 15 hypothetical. 16 BY MR. WEISS: 17 Q. You may answer. 18 MR. ELLIS: Do you want the question read back 19 to you without my objection? 20 THE WITNESS: Sure. Can you read the question 21 back? 22 (Record read as follows: 23 "QUESTION: Now, do you learn how to recognize 24 problems, people using drugs, for example?") 25 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 0012 1 BY MR. WEISS: 2 Q. Well -- go ahead. 3 MR. ELLIS: Did you understand the question? 4 THE WITNESS: Well, yes, I think I do. I've 5 never been -- Well, we have been trained on specific 6 topics and that wasn't a specific topic that we have 7 been trained on. 8 BY MR. WEISS: 9 Q. Have you ever been trained on the topic of 10 drug abuse? 11 A. That has never been one of our employee 12 trainings. 13 Q. Has there been any other type of training 14 other than employee training? 15 A. Yes, at Homeless Prenatal. 16 Q. I see. What was your training at Homeless 17 Prenatal about recognizing drug abuse problems? 18 A. It's pretty informal, we talk about it with 19 our supervisors. 20 Q. I understand from reviewing various documents 21 that I got from the Tenderloin Housing Clinic in a 22 little bit earlier part of the case and from talking 23 with Colleen Carrigan that some of the tenants have 24 problems with drugs. Right? 25 A. Yes. 0013 1 Q. Have you ever had to deal with tenants who had 2 problems with methamphetamine? 3 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 4 hypothetical. Go on. 5 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 6 BY MR. WEISS: 7 Q. Let me just say something before I give any 8 more questions. Mr. Ellis's job is, among other things, 9 is to make objections, and he does that because maybe if 10 we have dispute over the question later, a judge can say 11 that he objected timely and consider it. So unless he 12 tells you not to answer, you can still answer. So I 13 don't want you to get confused, that's part of his job. 14 Sometimes he helps me out with his objections and makes 15 me more focused -- and I appreciate that. 16 MR. ELLIS: And sometimes I probably I throw 17 you off track. 18 MR. WEISS: That's not too hard to do. So I 19 just wanted to explain that. 20 MR. ELLIS: Were you going to say something 21 further? 22 THE WITNESS: Well, the thing I'm saying is, 23 since we are a harm reduction, since our policy at THC 24 is a harm reduction policy towards people who use drugs, 25 we don't actively -- we don't actively seek to find out 0014 1 whether they use drugs. If a tenant volunteers that 2 information, then we will act on it. 3 BY MR. WEISS: 4 Q. I understand that you are not supposed to act 5 as the police and try to root out the drug problems and 6 turn people in. I am not getting at that. But the THC 7 does have policies against tenants using drugs on the 8 premises, right, illegal drugs? 9 A. Yes, they do. 10 Q. Doesn't the THC also have policies about 11 employees not using illegal drugs? 12 A. I'm not sure. I would think they would. 13 Q. You never learned that in any of your 14 training? 15 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Asked and answered. 16 BY MR. WEISS: 17 Q. You can answer. 18 A. I don't feel like answering. 19 Q. Well, you have to answer. 20 A. Oh. 21 MR. ELLIS: The question is: Did you ever 22 specifically learn at a training that THC has a policy 23 against employees doing -- 24 MR. WEISS: Illegal drugs? 25 THE WITNESS: I believe, yes, yes. 0015 1 BY MR. WEISS: 2 Q. And what did you learn? 3 A. I learned that if an employee -- well, this is 4 what I learned -- I learned that if an employee has a 5 drug problem, that the THC -- the THC will help that 6 employee seek rehabilitation. 7 Q. All right. And I should also say that in 8 asking these questions about drugs and drug abuse and 9 things like that, we are not trying to come from the 10 point of view that it's evil. We recognize that people 11 have problems and that THC tries to help them. But 12 because of certain facts in this case, we have to 13 inquire into that. So that's where we are going with 14 this. 15 I am going to back up for a second also. In 16 preparation for your deposition today, did you review 17 any documents? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Did you read any documents to prepare for 20 today? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did anyone at the THC read you any documents 23 to prepare you for today? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did anyone from the THC help prepare you for 0016 1 your deposition today? 2 A. Besides the lawyer? 3 Q. Right. And we can't ask about what he said to 4 you. But anyone else? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Did you learn about -- Let me ask you this: 7 Do you know who Colleen Carrigan is? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. How do you know her? 10 A. Well, she is the property supervisor. I had 11 to sit in on meetings with her. 12 Q. Have you ever talked to Colleen Carrigan about 13 your deposition? 14 A. No. 15 Q. When was the last time you talked to Colleen 16 Carrigan? 17 A. Two days ago. 18 Q. What was your discussion? 19 A. Well, we didn't actually have a discussion. 20 She was passing me by -- she was passing by my office, I 21 was with a tenant, and she looked in and she said, "Hi, 22 Laure." 23 Q. Did you talk to Colleen Carrigan at all about 24 her deposition? 25 A. No. 0017 1 Q. Do you know who Jesus Lopez is? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Did you talk to him about your deposition? 4 A. No. 5 Q. And this lawsuit stems from the alleged 6 assault of Chanel Samuel and Mydra McGarr. So have you 7 talked to Colleen Carrigan ever about the alleged 8 assault on Mydra McGarr by Chanel Samuel? 9 A. The day that the assault happened, I spoke to 10 Colleen because she was there at the hotel. 11 Q. What was your discussion with Colleen on that 12 day? 13 A. Colleen asked me what happened. 14 Q. What did you say? 15 A. I said -- I said that Mydra had gotten hurt. 16 She had gotten beaten up. 17 Q. Were you on the premises of the Hartland Hotel 18 the day this happened? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Where were you when this happened? 21 A. I was in my office. 22 Q. Where is your office located in the Hartland 23 Hotel? 24 A. Well, as you walk in the door, as you walk in 25 the front door, my office is the first door to the left. 0018 1 Q. And how did you learn of the alleged assault 2 that day that it happened? 3 A. The other case manager, Eddy Husband, came 4 into my office and said that he needed to talk to me and 5 he told me. 6 Q. What did he say to you? 7 A. He said that -- he said that something really 8 bad had happened to Mydra. I think he said that she was 9 downstairs. He said that she was bleeding. 10 Q. When he said something really bad happened to 11 her, did he elaborate? 12 A. No. Other than to say she was bleeding. 13 Q. And Eddy Husband, did you say? What's Eddy's 14 last name? 15 A. Husband. 16 Q. What is his position there at the THC? 17 A. He is a case manager. 18 Q. Is he also stationed at the Hartland Hotel? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. What time did Mr. Husband come in and tell you 21 this? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. Nighttime? Daytime? Morning? 24 A. Well, it was daytime. 25 Q. Was it the morning? 0019 1 A. Well, yeah, it was the morning. 2 Q. And what time did you come on duty that day? 3 This was May 30 of '08. 4 A. It was 9:30. 5 Q. And now prior to Mr. Husband telling you about 6 Mydra getting hurt, did you see Chanel Samuel on the 7 premises? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Where did you see her? 10 A. I saw Chanel -- I saw Chanel coming into the 11 hotel. 12 Q. Okay. And did you have any conversation with 13 her? 14 A. I did. I spoke to her. I said "Hello". What 15 else did I say to her? I think I invited her to -- I 16 invited her to a group, a women's group or something, an 17 event. 18 Q. What kind of event was the women's group? Did 19 it cover anything in particular? 20 A. It was just a hotel event, like a hotel -- 21 like a tenant event. 22 Q. And so you actually talked to her that 23 morning? 24 A. Uh-huh. 25 Q. Yes? 0020 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And what was her demeanor like? 3 A. Her demeanor was normal. It was normal for 4 Chanel. Chanel seemed like Chanel. 5 Q. What does that mean? For those of us who 6 don't know Chanel, normal could mean many things. Was 7 she agitated? Was she calm? What was she like? 8 A. She was calm. Chanel wasn't a vivacious 9 person is what I'm saying. I spoke to her and she kind 10 of smiled and said something back. 11 Q. And when was the next time you saw her after 12 that brief conversation? 13 A. The next time I saw her was just before Eddy 14 Husband came into my office. She was walking back out 15 the door. 16 Q. Chanel was? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. What door was that? 19 A. Walking back out the front door of the hotel. 20 Q. And then did you see her again after that? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did you see her being taken away by the 23 police? 24 A. No. 25 Q. And aside from Mr. Husband saying: Mydra is 0021 1 downstairs bleeding, did you learn anything else about 2 this alleged assault on that day? 3 A. Just what other people told me. 4 Q. What did other people tell you? 5 A. Other people told me that -- that Mydra -- I 6 mean Chanel -- Chanel had waited for Mydra downstairs 7 and had attacked her with something, some kind of 8 instrument or a pipe or something or a broom handle. 9 Q. Did you ever go down to the basement to see 10 what happened? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. When did you do that? 13 A. After Eddy told me that Mydra was bleeding 14 downstairs, I went down to see if there was anything I 15 could do. 16 Q. And what did you observe when you went 17 downstairs? 18 A. I saw Mydra lying on the floor in -- there was 19 a lot of blood. And there were bloody handprints on the 20 wall. She was face up on the stairs, her leg was a 21 mess, and her face was split open and there was blood. 22 Q. Were there emergency personnel there when you 23 went downstairs? 24 A. No. There was just the -- I believe it was 25 the desk clerk. 0022 1 Q. What's his name? 2 A. James Kang. 3 Q. Were the police there at that time? 4 A. No. 5 Q. So this is before the police even arrived; is 6 that correct? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did you see Chanel Samuel anywhere? 9 A. No. 10 Q. So from the time Mr. Husband said Mydra had 11 been injured, had you seen Chanel Samuel at all? 12 A. No, no. 13 Q. When you went downstairs and saw Mydra lying 14 on the steps bleeding, do you know where Chanel Samuel 15 was? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Do you know -- So the last time you said you 18 saw her was when she was leaving. About what time was 19 it, do you think? Was it close to noon? 20 A. I can't say for sure, but I believe -- I 21 believe it was close to noon. 22 Q. Did you notice any blood on Chanel Samuel? 23 A. No. I didn't see her very clearly. She 24 walked past my office so I don't know. 25 Q. Now, when you saw Mydra lying on the stairs 0023 1 bleeding, did she say anything to you? 2 A. She was quiet. And when I came down, I had to 3 hop over her to get to the floor, because she was 4 partway on the stairs. And I said something stupid 5 like, "Mydra, are you okay?" And she started moaning, 6 she started moaning and crying out. 7 Q. Was Mr. Kang down there? 8 A. He was, but -- yes, he was. But he went up 9 to -- I believe he went upstairs to see about the 10 ambulance. 11 Q. Did you have any discussion with Mr. Kang that 12 day about what happened? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And tell me about that discussion, what did 15 you say and what did he say? 16 A. I asked him if he knew what happened. He said 17 that -- that he had gone downstairs and found -- 18 found -- found her -- found Mydra like that. 19 Q. Did he say that he witnessed the alleged 20 assault? 21 A. I don't recall him saying that. 22 Q. And the reason I bring it up is, we have an 23 incident report that he wrote saying that he actually 24 saw her, meaning Chanel striking Mydra with a pipe on 25 the face. 0024 1 A. Okay. 2 Q. And he wrote it that day. So I am just using 3 that to frame the question. So did he say anything like 4 that to you? 5 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Misstates the 6 evidence. 7 BY MR. WEISS: 8 Q. You can answer. 9 A. I don't recall him saying that. 10 Q. Did Mr. Kang ever describe to you what he saw 11 that day, if anything? 12 A. I don't recall him saying anything about the 13 incident itself when she was hurt. I recall talking to 14 him about -- about Mydra and her injuries in finding 15 her. 16 Q. And did the police eventually show up? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Were you downstairs with Mydra when the police 19 showed up? 20 A. I was downstairs with her when the paramedics 21 showed up. But I was downstairs the whole time. I 22 don't know if the police showed up with them. 23 Q. Did you ever give any statements to the 24 police? 25 A. No. 0025 1 Q. Did you say anything to the paramedics? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What did you say to them? 4 A. Well, they were helping -- they were helping 5 Mydra and I was -- they were asking me questions about 6 what happened. And I was telling them that I didn't 7 really know what happened and that I just found her down 8 there and -- I was talking to her. 9 Q. Okay. Did you see Mydra being taken out on 10 the stretcher? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And after Mydra was taken out on a stretcher, 13 when was the next time you saw her, if at all? 14 A. The next time I saw her was when she -- she 15 came back to the hotel, I guess it was a few weeks later 16 and I think it was to clean her locker out. 17 Q. Did you talk to her? 18 A. Yes, I did. 19 Q. What was your discussion at that time? 20 A. It was mostly about her injuries and about 21 whether -- about whether she would have the use of her 22 eye. 23 Q. Anything else? 24 A. About if she was going to come back to work. 25 That's about it. 0026 1 Q. Did you discuss Chanel Samuel with her at all? 2 A. I asked her -- I believe I asked her if she 3 knew what happened to Chanel. Because I hadn't seen 4 Chanel either and what had happened to -- since I didn't 5 see her get arrested. 6 Q. Did you ever hear that Chanel Samuel was 7 arrested? 8 A. I did, I did hear that. 9 Q. How did you learn that? 10 A. I heard that from one of the tenants. 11 Q. Do you remember which tenant? 12 A. Eric Scott. 13 Q. And, now, did the THC ever conduct an 14 investigation of the incident that you're aware of? 15 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague as to 16 investigation. 17 BY MR. WEISS: 18 Q. You can answer. 19 A. Not to my knowledge. I don't know. 20 Q. Did anyone from the THC come to you and ask 21 you if you knew what happened or if you observed 22 anything? 23 A. I don't -- I don't think so. None of my 24 superiors. There was talk among the workers at the 25 hotel. But none of my superiors. 0027 1 Q. What was -- 2 A. Except for the beginning. Except for that 3 day. My supervisor at the time was up there. Colleen 4 Carrigan was up there. And they asked, because they 5 hadn't been on the site. 6 Q. Who was your supervisor at the time? 7 A. Jeff Buckley. 8 Q. And what was your discussion with Mr. Buckley? 9 A. Well, he asked -- he asked me if I was all 10 right. Because I had been downstairs -- I had been 11 downstairs with Mydra for a long time, I had stayed with 12 her until the paramedics got there. And he asked me if 13 I was all right. And then he asked me if I knew what 14 had happened. 15 Q. And what did you say? 16 A. I said that -- I said that I didn't see what 17 had happened and then I told him that someone had said 18 that -- that someone had told me that Chanel had 19 attacked Mydra 20 Q. Now, when did Colleen Carrigan show up, about 21 what time? 22 A. I can't give you an actual time. I know 23 that -- I know that she was there -- that she was there 24 before the paramedics took Mydra out on the stretcher. 25 She came down the stairs when I was sitting with Mydra 0028 1 waiting for the paramedics. 2 Q. And what was your discussion with Colleen 3 Carrigan about the incident? 4 A. Like I said, I didn't have too much of a 5 discussion with her. She asked me what had happened or 6 if I had seen anything and I said no. 7 Q. And how long did Mr. Carrigan remain on the 8 scene? 9 A. She stayed until -- she stayed until -- after 10 the paramedics left, she was still there. 11 Q. Now, did the THC send out any sort of writings 12 about the incident to workers about what happened? 13 A. You know, I don't remember. I believe -- they 14 might have. I don't remember. 15 Q. Now, was Jesus Lopez present at the time of 16 the incident? 17 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 18 BY MR. WEISS: 19 Q. You can answer. 20 A. I believe he was on-site. I don't -- he 21 wasn't down -- he wasn't downstairs toward the 22 beginning. 23 Q. Where is his office at the Hartland? 24 A. His office is on the second floor. 25 Q. And why would you believe that he was present 0029 1 at or about the time of the incident? 2 A. I believe I saw him later. I believe I saw 3 him later. But his work hours are from 8:00 to 4:00 and 4 he is usually pretty punctual about being at work. 5 Q. So we talked about the desk clerk, you and 6 Mr. Husband, Colleen Carrigan. Were there any other THC 7 employees present at or about the time that the incident 8 occurred? 9 A. Possibly Emmanuel White, the other -- one of 10 the janitors. Possibly. 11 Q. When you say "possibly", you just don't recall 12 exactly? 13 A. Yes. Yes. I was pretty focused on -- 14 Q. At the time of the incident, how long do you 15 think you had known Chanel Samuel? 16 A. Well, I started working in the first week of 17 April and I met everyone who worked at the hotel then, 18 so since April. 19 Q. And do you include Chanel as someone who 20 worked at the hotel? 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. Yes? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And don't feel bad. I had a deposition taken 25 and I did the same thing. 0030 1 A. No problem. 2 Q. What was Chanel's job there at the hotel? 3 A. Chanel is a janitor. 4 Q. And how often would you see her at the hotel 5 working? 6 A. I'd see her about -- I'd see her about four 7 days a week maybe. 8 Q. So since you had started working there, you 9 would see her on average probably four days a week 10 working as a janitor? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. What hours was she working, do you think? 13 A. You know, I am not sure of her hours. When I 14 saw her, it would usually be around -- around lunch 15 time, around 11:00, 11:00. 16 Q. She was doing some sort of janitorial work 17 around that time when you would see her? 18 A. Well, when I saw her, she would usually be 19 giving the desk clerk a break, a lunch break, so she 20 would be sitting at the front desk. 21 Q. Did you ever see her doing any janitorial work 22 at the hotel? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Now, when you found Mydra, was she down in the 25 basement? 0031 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And could one get into the basement from the 3 lobby? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And was the door from the lobby to the 6 basement locked or could anyone just walk down there? 7 A. The door wasn't locked. 8 Q. Now, at the time of the incident, was anyone 9 allowed to just go down to the basement? 10 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 11 Incomplete hypothetical. 12 BY MR. WEISS: 13 Q. You can answer. 14 A. No. 15 Q. At or around May 30, 2008, who was allowed to 16 go down to the basement? 17 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 18 BY MR. WEISS: 19 Q. You can answer. 20 A. We weren't -- the -- only staff was supposed 21 to go down to the basement. 22 Q. Now, prior to May 30, had you ever seen Chanel 23 Samuel go down to the basement? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And were janitor supplies down in the 0032 1 basement, do you know? 2 A. I'm not sure. I believe they were. 3 Q. Were there washers and dryers in the basement? 4 A. There is a washer and a dryer in the basement. 5 It's not publicized because it's not for tenant use. 6 Q. Now, if a staff member was off duty, were they 7 still allowed to go to the basement? 8 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 9 hypothetical. Calls for speculation. 10 BY MR. WEISS: 11 Q. You can answer. 12 A. I don't know. 13 Q. How did you learn that only staff members were 14 allowed in the basement? 15 A. I learned from -- I learned from one of the 16 janitors. 17 Q. Do you remember which one? 18 A. I believe it was Emmanuel, Emmanuel White. 19 Q. Just in some conversations he mentioned that 20 to you? 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. Yes? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Oh, I think you mentioned that employees at 25 the Hartland just talked in general about the incident. 0033 1 What were some of the discussions that you heard when 2 people talked about it? 3 A. There was a lot of speculation as to why it 4 happened. Yes. 5 Q. And in any speculation, did anyone come up 6 with any theories, like the two never got along or they 7 had a dispute over something or anything like that? 8 A. I heard everything. I heard that they hated 9 each other. I heard that they were good friends. 10 I heard that -- I heard that it was -- it was 11 a money issue. I heard that one person had stolen 12 something from the other person. 13 I heard drugs -- I heard it was a drug thing, 14 that one person had gotten drugs for someone else and it 15 was a gripe because of that. There was a lot of 16 different things. 17 It wasn't just the staff. It was also the 18 tenants who were speculating. 19 Q. So people were just coming up with different 20 theories. Right? 21 A. Uh-huh. 22 Q. Yes? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Did anyone have any actual facts, like I heard 25 Chanel say this or I heard Mydra say that and that's 0034 1 what led to it? 2 A. Well, Eric Scott. 3 Q. What did he say? 4 A. He was -- he was close to Chanel and he said 5 that she said that Mydra owed Chanel money. 6 Q. Did he elaborate any further on that? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Didn't you also kind of informally mediate a 9 dispute between Mydra and Ms. Samuel over a $5 loan? 10 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague. Incomplete 11 hypothetical. 12 BY MR. WEISS: 13 Q. You can answer. 14 A. I didn't mediate a dispute between them. I 15 asked -- I witnessed, I guess, the tail-end of a dispute 16 and I asked Chanel about it. I tried to comfort 17 Chanel -- not Chanel, I'm sorry -- Mydra. I asked Mydra 18 about it and I tried to comfort her around it. She 19 seemed a little upset. 20 Q. What did you witness? 21 A. I witnessed them -- I witnessed them 22 exchanging some harsh words. 23 Q. Did you actually hear the harsh words 24 exchanged? 25 A. Like I said, I heard what seemed to be the 0035 1 tail-end of it. 2 Q. Just tell me exactly what you recall? 3 A. Okay. I walked to the front desk and I heard 4 Chanel threaten Mydra -- threaten something along the 5 lines of, "I am going to beat your ass" or something or 6 "I'll get mine" or something like that. And I heard 7 Mydra say, "You are going to try," something. 8 Q. Is that the most that you can recall right 9 now? 10 A. Like I said, I didn't hear all of it. I just 11 heard the last part of it. And the tone. 12 Q. I'm sorry to interrupt you. 13 A. No problem. 14 Q. Was there any profanity used in this exchange 15 that you heard? 16 A. I think someone may have said "ass". "I am 17 going to kick your ass." I think Chanel may have said 18 that. 19 Q. What was Chanel's tone of voice when she said 20 that? 21 A. Like I said before, Chanel wasn't a loud -- 22 wasn't a loud kind of vivacious person. Her tone was 23 low, low tone. Yes, she wasn't shouting. 24 Q. So you were close enough to hear what she 25 said, though. Right? 0036 1 A. Uh-huh. 2 Q. Yes? 3 A. Yes. It sounded -- it was very intense. 4 Q. And what was Chanel's demeanor when you heard 5 her say those words? 6 A. Chanel's demeanor -- Chanel -- Chanel was 7 turning. Mydra was sitting, sitting near the front desk 8 part. I don't know if you have been to the Hartland, 9 but the front desk is kind of like in a box. Chanel was 10 sitting toward the front of the box. And there is a 11 door in the back -- Mydra was sitting in the front of 12 the box. Chanel had talked through the door in the 13 back. It looked like she was turning -- when I got 14 there, she was turning and walking out. And that's when 15 she was saying something -- that's when she said what 16 she said. 17 Q. Now, when you said you were comforting Mydra, 18 what was Mydra's demeanor, why did she needed 19 comforting? 20 A. Well, after Chanel walked out, Mydra started 21 saying, "Shit. I can't stand this. I can't stand this. 22 I don't want to have to go through this." Words to that 23 effect. And, you know, her head was in her hand -- her 24 head was kind of in her hands and she seemed really 25 upset. And so I leaned over the desk and I said -- I 0037 1 said, "Mydra, can I talk to you in my office for a 2 second?" So she got up and she went into my office. 3 Q. What did you two talk about? 4 A. I said, "What was that all about?" 5 And she said, "It's nothing. It's nothing. 6 Just bullshit", she said. 7 And I said, "It's obviously not. She was 8 threatening you." 9 And to the best of my recollection, she said, 10 "Oh, it's nothing, it's just mess." 11 I said, "Well, are you worried?" 12 She said, "No, I'm not worried. I'm not 13 worried about her." 14 I'm really trying -- I'm trying to remember. 15 Q. I understand. 16 A. But the gist of what I recall is that I was 17 asking Mydra what was wrong, Mydra was kind of avoiding, 18 you know, telling me. And when she did -- she did -- I 19 encouraged Mydra to put some paper on what happened -- 20 that's what we kind of call filing a written complaint 21 over what happened. And Mydra said that no, she was 22 going to handle it in her own way. And I encouraged her 23 to file a complaint again and she said, "Okay, maybe I 24 will." 25 Q. Now, at that point, how long had you known 0038 1 Mydra? 2 A. Just like a month. 3 Q. And did you find that Mydra was the kind of 4 person that would keep to herself and not talk about her 5 feelings and that type of thing? 6 A. Mydra wouldn't exactly keep to herself, but 7 she wasn't really the kind to talk about her feelings. 8 Mydra was a talkative -- not talkative, but she was a 9 social person, you know, but she wasn't the kind to wear 10 her feelings on her sleeve. 11 Q. Did you get along with Mydra okay? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And did you send any sort of paperwork hire up 14 about the dispute that you witnessed? 15 A. No, I didn't. 16 Q. Any particular reason? 17 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. 18 Incomplete hypothetical. 19 BY MR. WEISS: 20 Q. You can answer. 21 A. Well, I'm not sure. At the time I wasn't sure 22 exactly what I should do, we are different branches, 23 support services and property management. 24 Q. Did you seek any guidance? Like I just 25 witnessed a tenant or one employee threaten another, 0039 1 what should I do? 2 A. No, no I didn't. 3 Q. Okay. Did you observe any other incidents 4 between Chanel Samuel and Mydra McGarr aside from that 5 one? 6 A. No. They were cold to each other, but later 7 it seemed like in a few weeks, like in a little while, 8 it seemed like they were on more cordial terms. 9 Q. Okay. Do you know whether Chanel Samuel had 10 any problems with drugs? 11 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 12 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. 13 BY MR. WEISS: 14 Q. You can answer. 15 A. No, I don't. 16 Q. Had you ever heard that she was smoking 17 crystal meth -- let me start over again. 18 Had you ever heard that Chanel Samuel was 19 smoking crystal meth in her unit? 20 A. After, after the beating, I heard that. I 21 heard people speaking openly about that. 22 Q. What were people saying? 23 A. They were saying that she -- that she did 24 speed, she did meth. These are tenant. 25 Q. I understand. Again, I am not trying to do 0040 1 this from the point of condemning one person from 2 another. We are just trying to figure out all the 3 things that happened. 4 When people were talking about her using 5 speed, were they talking about her smoking it or what 6 method, if they did, about her using it? 7 A. Well, it was a tenant, it was Eric, and he 8 mentioned that she smoked speed. 9 Q. Okay. And in talking to him, did he have any 10 theories that maybe that's what motivated her to get 11 involved in an assault -- alleged assault? 12 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 13 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. Calls for 14 speculation. 15 BY MR. WEISS: 16 Q. Just what he said about it, if he had any 17 thoughts about it. 18 A. No. He said it was over money. 19 Q. That's true, he did say that. But did he say 20 anything about whether speed played a part in a -- 21 A. No. 22 Q. How was it then after the incident that he 23 just was talking about Chanel smoking speed? 24 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Misstates the 25 evidence. 0041 1 BY MR. WEISS: 2 Q. You can answer. 3 A. Well, he was talking to me about how he was 4 going to go visit Chanel in jail, and that was really 5 how the subject came up. 6 Q. Was it just -- 7 A. The subject of Chanel. 8 Q. Just random conversation, you just ran into 9 him, he said he was going to visit; is that how that 10 conversation occurred? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. And then during that conversation, how did he 13 bring up the use of speed by Chanel? 14 A. Well, I said, "I can't believe that she would 15 do that." And I said, "I wonder why she would do that." 16 Because she was obviously going to get caught. It was 17 obviously going to really mess her life up. And, you 18 know, that's what I was kind of saying to him. And that 19 I was saying, "Well, what was it about anyway?" 20 And he was saying, she had had -- they had 21 known each other for a long time, they had known each 22 other before. And he was saying that they -- he was 23 saying that they had -- that they had done drugs 24 together, Chanel and Mydra. And I said, "Well, I didn't 25 know that she did speed." And that was when he was like 0042 1 "Yeah". 2 Q. When you say "she," you mean Chanel? 3 A. Chanel, yes. 4 Q. What did Eric say? 5 A. I said, "I didn't know that she did speed." I 6 said, "I just thought she was a little twitchy." 7 And he said, "Yes. She smokes. She is 8 smoking it in her room. She smokes it." 9 Q. Now, when you say Chanel was a little twitchy, 10 can you elaborate on that a little bit? 11 A. She was just -- she was just twitchy. She -- 12 the first time I met Chanel, she was in a -- in a new 13 employee orientation. I think she got hired around the 14 same time I did, you know. And I sat next to her and, 15 you know, we exchanged a few words, you know, and she 16 just seemed a little tense to me, but friendly. 17 Q. I understand. I'm just asking what you 18 observed and what you might have learned, not -- again, 19 I'm not trying to blame anyone for anything. 20 A. No problem. I am just trying to give you a 21 clear picture. 22 Q. So when you are saying twitchy and tense -- I 23 know what I think twitchy is and I kind of know what you 24 are talking about, but it's not about what I know or 25 think twitchy means. So I am just trying to get a 0043 1 definition of what you think it is. 2 A. Oh, she moved around -- not a lot, but she 3 would, you know, she would move her body -- she would 4 move around kind of abruptly sometimes. She -- yes, 5 that was it, twitchy. 6 Q. And when Eric mentioned that Chanel was 7 smoking meth up in her room, did he mention that it 8 caused her to act in any particular way? 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Misstates the 10 testimony. 11 THE WITNESS: Not that I -- I don't recall him 12 saying that. I don't think he said that. 13 BY MR. WEISS: 14 Q. He just mentioned that -- I'm sorry? 15 A. It doesn't matter. 16 Q. And I wasn't clear on this. Did Eric say that 17 he used drugs with Chanel? 18 A. No, he didn't say that he used drugs with her. 19 He said that Mydra used drugs with her. 20 Q. Oh. Did Eric tell you -- I know you mentioned 21 that he said he was going to visit her. Did you have 22 any discussion with Eric after that, where he told you 23 about his visit with Chanel? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did anyone ever ask you to go testify at any 0044 1 criminal hearings involving Chanel? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Do you know anyone else at the THC who was 4 asked to go down and testify at the criminal 5 proceedings? 6 A. I think the property manager, but I am not 7 sure. 8 Q. And that would be who now? 9 A. Jesus Lopez. 10 Q. Did he ever mention to you that he had to go 11 down there and testify? 12 A. I think he did. But he goes to court a lot. 13 Q. Is that on evictions more? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And I'll represent to you that I attended the 16 criminal hearing and I actually saw Mr. Lopez there. 17 Well, I was told that's who he was. Did he ever talk 18 about his testimony at the hearing? 19 A. No. 20 Q. And since the incident, have you ever talked 21 to Chanel? 22 A. No. I've never seen her -- I haven't seen 23 her. 24 Q. Have you talked to anyone who has talked to 25 her since the incident? 0045 1 A. Like I said, I am not sure if Eric went to 2 visit her or not. 3 Q. He just said he was? 4 A. He said he was. But I don't know if he 5 actually did. 6 Q. But I just wonder if anyone else had gone down 7 or told you about it? 8 A. Yes. I don't recall anyone saying that. 9 Q. Since the incident, have you ever talked to 10 Mr. Husband about it? 11 A. Yes. Yes. 12 Q. How many times do you think? 13 A. Oh, you know, I couldn't really say how many 14 times. But during those the first week or so after the 15 accident, everyone talked about it quite a bit. 16 Q. That seems pretty natural. But did either -- 17 Well, did you and Mr. Husband ever talk about it further 18 about any more facts you might have learned or he might 19 have learned? 20 A. Just the same things everyone else was talking 21 about, different theories on why it happened does. 22 Q. I might have asked this. But does the THC 23 have a policy about employees or tenants committing acts 24 of violence on one another? 25 A. THC has a policy on tenants committing acts of 0046 1 violence, violence of tenants. I am not sure of THC's 2 policy towards violence on employees. But I know that 3 there is a no tolerance policy toward tenant violence. 4 Q. Did you ever know whether Chanel had any 5 issues with any other tenants or employees? When I say 6 "issues", kind of like the thing you described between 7 you and Mydra? 8 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. 9 Incomplete hypothetical. 10 BY MR. WEISS: 11 Q. You can answer. 12 A. No. 13 Q. You never learned of any issues Chanel had 14 with anyone else involving -- let me make it more clear. 15 I don't think issues is clear enough. 16 Did you ever learn of Chanel having hostility 17 toward any other tenants or employees on the premises? 18 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous. 19 Incomplete hypothetical. 20 THE WITNESS: After the incident, I heard that 21 Chanel had always had a temper. 22 BY MR. WEISS: 23 Q. Where did you learn that? 24 A. From tenants. 25 Q. And what kind of things did you hear? 0047 1 A. Just that she had a temper. And that before 2 she -- that before she was -- that before -- I am not 3 sure if it was before she lived in a THC hotel or if it 4 was before she worked for THC, but before that she had 5 had a really bad temper. 6 Q. And did you hear that she would get violent? 7 A. I heard that she was -- I heard that she could 8 be violent, yes. 9 Q. Who told you that? 10 A. Eric. 11 Q. What did he tell you about that? 12 A. He just told me that she had -- she had a 13 temper, she had a temper on her. But that she was doing 14 much better, he said, she was doing much better before 15 the incident, you know, before the beating, and it had 16 surprised him. 17 Q. What did he say about her possibly being 18 violent? 19 A. He said that she had a really bad temper. 20 Those were his words, "She had a really bad temper, that 21 she could flash on," that's what he said, "She could 22 flash on." 23 Q. Did he ever connect that temper to drug use? 24 A. Uh-uh. 25 Q. No? 0048 1 A. No, he never did. 2 Q. What else did he tell you about Chanel in 3 terms of bad temper or flashing on people, anything 4 specific that you can think of? 5 A. No, I can't. I don't know anything specific 6 that he said. It's pretty general. 7 Q. Just generally, do you remember anything else 8 that he said about -- we talked about drug use, now we 9 talked a little bit about having a bad temper, flashing 10 on people. Anything else that you can think of that he 11 said about that? 12 A. No, no. 13 Q. Any other tenants ever say a similar thing to 14 you? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did you ever observe Mydra and Mr. Lopez's 17 working relationship? 18 A. I can't recall. 19 Q. You know, aside from the incident that you 20 mentioned where you tried to calm Mydra down about 21 Chanel threatening her or whatever, did you ever talk to 22 Mydra any further about her relationship to Chanel? 23 A. Uh-uh, no. 24 Q. Did you ever talk to anyone else at the THC 25 about problems between Mydra and Chanel? 0049 1 A. No. Other than my co-workers. 2 Q. What did you say to your co-workers about it? 3 A. Well, I asked -- after they had the incident, 4 the harsh words, I asked -- I asked if they were working 5 well together. And I don't remember who I asked and -- 6 I don't remember. 7 Q. Did you ever tell anyone, any other employees 8 at the THC, Mr. Lopez or others, that you witnessed this 9 incident where Chanel said, "I am going to beat your 10 ass", or words to that effect, and walked away? 11 A. You know, I don't remember. I'm sure I must 12 have talked about it with somebody. But there were 13 people there at the desk at the time, there were other 14 people there at the desk. It wasn't just Chanel, Mydra, 15 and me, there was -- I think James might have been 16 there. I don't remember. 17 Q. How about Mr. Lopez, was he there? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Anyone else you can think of? 20 A. I don't remember. 21 Q. I am going as fast as we can. Do you want to 22 take a break? 23 A. No, I am okay. 24 Q. Okay. Did you ever observe anything about the 25 working relationship between Mr. Lopez and Chanel? 0050 1 A. Not really. I saw him ask her to do something 2 once. I mean, you know. I don't remember what it was. 3 It was just a property management type thing. As a case 4 manager, I am usually in my office or visiting tenants, 5 and the janitors and the maintenance people are usually 6 up on the floors, you know. So the only time we see 7 them a lot of times is when they are either in the lobby 8 or when we need them to do something or when they are at 9 the desk. 10 Q. Okay. I understand. Did you ever have any 11 meetings with Chanel where you referred her to any sort 12 of social services? 13 A. You know, I don't recall. It doesn't stand 14 out in my memory. But people ask me -- people ask me 15 about resources all the time, including other employees. 16 Q. They just come up informally and ask you? 17 A. "Hey Laure, do you know where I can get my 18 taxes done? You know, things like that. 19 Q. Do you keep tenant files on various tenants 20 that you work with? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Where are tenant files usually kept at the 23 THC? 24 A. Well, they are kept in case manager's offices. 25 The actual files are kept in file cabinets. And the 0051 1 case notes are in a database on our server so we can 2 access that. 3 Q. I understand that -- Well, Chanel also lived 4 at the Hartland at the time this happened. Right? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Is there a tenant file on Chanel Samuel, do 7 you know? 8 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 9 BY MR. WEISS: 10 Q. You can answer, only if you know. 11 A. I don't know. I believe -- I don't know. I 12 don't know. 13 Q. Do you think there might be? One of the 14 purposes of this deposition is not just to get what you 15 know, but maybe give us some information so we can take 16 the next step on. So you don't have to know everything 17 exactly for sure. There might be a hit we could follow 18 up on. 19 So do you think there might be a tenant file 20 on Chanel? 21 A. Well, there should be. Every tenant that 22 comes in gets a file -- gets a data base file even if -- 23 even if we don't -- even if we tend not to have contact 24 with them. The policy, as I understand it, is if a 25 tenant works at THC, that we don't have to provide them 0052 1 case management services. 2 Q. Are there something called case files that are 3 kept by the case managers that are different from a 4 tenant file? 5 A. Okay. There are the files, the tenant files, 6 the hard copies, and then there are the support 7 services -- support services notes that are on the 8 database in the computer. So the tenant files, the hard 9 copy, would have things from -- like letters from 10 property management, written violations, things like 11 that, and also say -- and also hard copies of certain 12 support service documents. Like if a tenant is late on 13 their rent, support service case manager is supposed to 14 outreach that tenant. If you send an outreach letter, 15 that letter gets put in their file. Or if a tenant gets 16 a proof of income so they could apply for something, 17 like housing or something, we put the proof of income in 18 their hard copy file. Case notes, contact notes, the 19 contact we have with tenants, go into the database. 20 Q. Do you know anything about employees of the 21 THC being subpoenaed to testify at the criminal hearing? 22 A. Yeah, I heard about that. I am not sure who 23 did, who actually -- I am not sure who did. 24 Q. What did you hear about it? 25 A. Well, I believe that Jesus Lopez, I believe 0053 1 that he got a subpoena. 2 Q. I agree with that. I saw him down there. Did 3 you hear about anyone else? 4 A. Oh, yes. I think maybe James, James Kang. 5 Q. Right. I saw him down there. 6 A. That's about all I know. 7 Q. Did you get any communication from anyone 8 higher up at the THC not to talk about the incident? 9 A. When the incident first occurred -- when it 10 first occurred, I think we weren't supposed to talk 11 about it. 12 Q. How did you learn that? 13 A. I don't recall. My supervisor might have 14 verbally told me that we shouldn't talk about it. 15 Q. Would that be Mr. Buckley? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Did he say why? 18 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 19 Vague and ambiguous. 20 BY MR. WEISS: 21 Q. You can answer it. 22 A. I might be mixing up the times, though, but I 23 think it had to do with the lawsuit. But I'm not sure. 24 Q. I am going to take a brief break. I might be 25 very close to getting done. So we will go off the 0054 1 record shortly and get some tea. 2 (Off the record.) 3 BY MR. WEISS: 4 Q. Back on the record. There is a couple of 5 things that I want to follow up. Do you know are there 6 case notes concerning Chanel Samuel that you know of? 7 A. Not that I know of. I've never actually seen 8 them. I know that there is -- I know that there is a 9 database, you know, a database file on Chanel. 10 Q. Does anything lead you to believe that there 11 is case notes on Chanel Samuel? 12 A. Well, she is a tenant. I mean, I would assume 13 that at some point -- because I don't know how long she 14 worked for THC. Like I assumed that she got hired at 15 the same time as me, but then I heard that she had 16 worked for THC before. 17 Q. Oh, right. 18 A. I mean I don't know. If she had been working 19 at THC, then there might not be that many. 20 Q. Did you ever discuss Jesus or Mydra with 21 Chanel Samuel? 22 A. Uh-uh, no. 23 Q. Did you learn anything about the eviction -- 24 let me ask you this. Chanel Samuel, to your knowledge, 25 is in jail still. Right? 0055 1 A. Yes, I guess, I don't know. 2 Q. Did you ever hear anything about whether she 3 was evicted or not? 4 A. I heard that she was evicted. 5 Q. And where did you hear that? 6 A. Eddy and Jesus. Eddy and Jesus were talking 7 about. 8 Q. What did you hear? 9 A. That she was evicted -- she was going to be 10 evicted under the no tolerance to violence policy. 11 Q. And you were there the day of the incident 12 because you saw Mydra bleeding. Were you there the day 13 before the incident working? 14 A. Yes. I mean, I don't -- I don't exactly 15 recall, but I believe I was. 16 Q. Do you know whether there was any sort of 17 dispute or argument between Chanel or Mydra the day 18 before the incident occurred? 19 A. I don't know. 20 Q. And I want to follow up on your discussions 21 with Colleen. How many discussions do you think you've 22 had with Colleen about Chanel Samuel? 23 A. About Chanel? 24 Q. Correct. 25 A. None. 0056 1 Q. Did you ever have any discussions with Colleen 2 about Chanel's tenancy at all? 3 A. No. But then I don't believe Chanel was on my 4 case load. 5 Q. Do you know whose case load she might have 6 been on? 7 A. I'm not sure. I think she was on Eddy's, but 8 I am not sure. But then after the incident, I did look 9 in the computer to see if I could find her -- not right 10 after but afterwards, I did look to see if I could find 11 her and she was not there. Which is a policy, once the 12 tenant moves out, they take their name off of the data 13 base. 14 Q. Is the information deleted, do you know, or is 15 it just stored somewhere? 16 A. I don't know. 17 Q. Did you ever see anything on the database 18 about Chanel Samuel prior to the incident? 19 A. No. 20 Q. How about Mydra McGarr, did you ever see 21 anything on any data bases about her? 22 A. No. 23 Q. And I want to follow up -- 24 A. Is Mydra is tenant? 25 Q. No, she wasn't. But I think at one time she 0057 1 was at a different property. 2 A. Okay. I didn't know that. 3 Q. And you think you saw Chanel about four times 4 a week doing janitorial work around the facility? 5 A. Did I -- I meant I saw Mydra. I don't know if 6 I said I saw Chanel before, but I was thinking Mydra. 7 Q. You saw Mydra? 8 A. Yes. Chanel I saw a lot less. 9 MR. ELLIS: In fact, let's clear that up. 10 Earlier he was asking about Chanel and you said you saw 11 Chanel four times a week including at the front desk 12 filling in at the desk. 13 THE WITNESS: Excuse me? Oh, yeah. No. I 14 meant Mydra. 15 MR. ELLIS: Just so we are clear for the 16 record. Did you see Chanel or Mydra filling in at the 17 front desk for the front desk clerk? 18 THE WITNESS: I saw Mydra filling in at the 19 front desk. 20 MR. ELLIS: Okay. Thank you. 21 BY MR. WEISS: 22 Q. Did you know that prior to the day of the 23 incident, Mydra had written two incident reports about 24 Chanel? 25 A. No, I didn't know. 0058 1 Q. Had you ever heard that after the event that 2 there were two incident reports? 3 A. Yes, after I heard that. 4 Q. And where did you hear that from? 5 A. I believe I heard it from Emmanuel White, who 6 is another janitor, but, again, I can't be sure. 7 Q. Did you hear it from Jesus or Colleen? 8 A. I didn't hear anything like that from Colleen. 9 And I don't believe I heard it from Jesus, although I'm 10 not sure. 11 Q. Do you know who Janie Lara is? 12 A. I believe she works in HR. 13 Q. Did you ever talk to her about this incident? 14 A. No. I don't talk to Janie. 15 Q. Did you ever see Janie on the premises of the 16 Hartland afterwards asking about what happened? 17 A. No. 18 Q. Do you know who James Holland is? 19 A. Yes. He is the Director of Property 20 Management. 21 Q. Okay. Did you ever discuss anything about 22 this incident with Mr. Holland? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Did you ever talk to Mr. Holland concerning 25 anything about either Chanel Samuel or Mydra McGarr, 0059 1 aside from this incident? 2 A. No. I don't know him like that. 3 Q. Did he ever come around asking about what 4 happened after the incident occurred? 5 A. No, not that I know of. 6 Q. Now, after this incident occurred, did you 7 ever tell anyone about this one incident where you saw 8 Chanel threaten Mydra? 9 A. Let's see. I spoke about it to -- I believe I 10 spoke about it to Emmanuel. I might of spoken about it 11 to Jesus, but I'm not sure. And I told Eddy Husband -- 12 I spoke about it to Eddy Husband. 13 Q. And the reason I ask is because we get 14 information from various sources too. And one piece of 15 information came through the THC that you had witnessed 16 this event. And I'm wondering about how anyone at THC 17 would know about this thing where Chanel threatened 18 Mydra. 19 A. I don't know. Maybe -- 20 MR. ELLIS: I'm not sure. Is there a question 21 pending? 22 BY MR. WEISS: 23 Q. Yes. I have received information from a 24 number of sources, including THC, about this incident 25 that you witnessed. So I'm just wondering if you must 0060 1 have told someone at THC about it in management. 2 Because, otherwise, how would it kind of bubble up to 3 THC to me? 4 A. That's true. I might have or maybe -- 5 MR. ELLIS: Asked and answered. 6 MR. WEISS: No. Could you stop interrupting 7 the witness? Could you just answer -- 8 MR. ELLIS: The question is who did she tell? 9 MR. WEISS: Right. 10 MR. ELLIS: She told me. 11 MR. WEISS: Well, aside from you. 12 MR. ELLIS: You are not allowed to tell about 13 conversations that you had with me. Did you tell 14 anybody else, other than me, Emmanuel White, maybe 15 Jesus, maybe Eddy Husband, about the incident? 16 THE WITNESS: Possibly my supervisor at the 17 time, Jeff Buckley. 18 MR. ELLIS: Are you guessing or do you know? 19 THE WITNESS: I don't recall. 20 BY MR. WEISS: 21 Q. Do you have to punch a timecard at work or 22 fill out a time sheet? 23 A. I fill out a time sheet. 24 Q. Do you know if the janitors have to fill out 25 time sheets? 0061 1 A. I believe they did. 2 Q. Do you know if other employees at like the 3 Hartland Hotel, for example, have to fill out time 4 sheets? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Okay. Does Eric Scott still live at the 7 Hartland do you know? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What does he look like? Can you give me a 10 physical description? 11 A. Let's see. He is about 5-10 maybe. He is 12 African descendant. He has green eyes. He is bald, 13 actually bald. Yeah, that's about it. 14 Q. What about age maybe? 15 A. Oh, I'd say he is maybe 40. 16 Q. And you mentioned height. Do you have an 17 estimate of his weight? 18 A. Maybe 200 pounds. He is a little heavy set. 19 Q. Do you know if he works anywhere, do you have 20 any idea? 21 A. No, I don't know. I do have a question, 22 though. I see that none of my supervisors are here. 23 MR. ELLIS: Do you want to ask me? 24 THE WITNESS: I guess. 25 MR. ELLIS: Do you want to go off the record 0062 1 and step out to the hall? 2 THE WITNESS: Okay. Let's do that. 3 MR. ELLIS: Is that all right to get off the 4 record? 5 MR. WEISS: Sure. 6 (Off the record.) 7 BY MR. WEISS: 8 Q. We are on. I understand there has been a 9 question about confidentiality in terms of your 10 conversations with people. You are not a licensed 11 therapist, are you? 12 A. Uh-uh. 13 Q. No? 14 A. No. 15 Q. And you don't give any sort of psychological 16 counseling or psychotherapy to the tenants, do you? 17 A. No. 18 Q. And has anyone at the THC told you that your 19 dealings with tenants are confidential? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Who told you that? 22 A. My supervisor. My supervisor, Jeff Buckley. 23 And we signed -- we signed agreements -- we signed 24 agreements with the tenants, confidentiality agreements. 25 Q. Okay. 0063 1 A. And I think you would have to ask my 2 supervisors to see it. 3 Q. I am not really asking about any other tenants 4 or people other than the two, the plaintiff, Mydra, and 5 Chanel Samuel. 6 A. Eric. 7 Q. Oh, Eric is one of your tenants that you work 8 with? 9 A. Uh-huh. 10 Q. Yes? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Okay. Are you discouraged by anyone at THC 13 management from reporting the drug use of a tenant to 14 the management of THC? 15 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 16 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. Calls for 17 speculation. 18 BY MR. WEISS: 19 Q. You can answer. 20 A. The direct use of a tenant -- I don't 21 understand. 22 Q. Let's say you learned that a tenant is using 23 drugs like smoking crystal meth. Are you discouraged by 24 the management of THC from reporting that to property 25 management? 0064 1 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 2 THE WITNESS: Am I discouraged from reporting 3 it to property management? 4 BY MR. WEISS: 5 Q. More like a tenant could get evicted if it 6 would get reported so you are discouraged if you report 7 it. 8 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 9 THE WITNESS: Well, tenants aren't supposed 10 to -- it's a little confusing. It's a little 11 confusing -- tenants aren't supposed to be evicted 12 because -- because of use -- as far as I know, tenants 13 aren't supposed to be evicted because of drug use. The 14 notes that we keep, that support services keeps, the 15 contact notes, are confidential from property 16 management. That's why property management has a 17 different database than support services does. So we 18 can tell property management about -- as I understand 19 it, we can inform property management about drug use. 20 And that does happen, because the tenants' drug use will 21 impact on how the tenant is in the hotel. But we aren't 22 encouraged to share personal details about tenants with 23 property management. In fact, we are -- yes, I guess we 24 are discouraged from doing that. It's not a kosher 25 thing to do, because of the confidentiality. 0065 1 BY MR. WEISS: 2 Q. Well, let me ask you this. Suppose someone 3 who is not a tenant that you provide services to -- you 4 are a case manager, you have certain tenants that you 5 work with -- suppose a tenant that you don't work with, 6 you learn that that tenant is smoking crystal meth in 7 her room, for example. Are you encouraged in that 8 situation from telling property management as well? 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 10 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. Calls for 11 speculation. 12 BY MR. WEISS: 13 Q. Overruled. You can answer. 14 A. I don't know. I don't know. 15 Q. Well, suppose you learn that a tenant that you 16 don't work with is smoking crystal meth in her room. 17 Would you talk to property management about it and say: 18 Hey, we have a tenant up there using drugs in her room? 19 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 20 THE WITNESS: Are you saying what would I do 21 or what's the policy? 22 BY MR. WEISS: 23 Q. What's the policy? 24 A. I am not sure what the policy is. 25 Q. Suppose you learn a tenant, who you don't 0066 1 provide services to personally, is dealing drugs from 2 their room. What's the policy that you know of what you 3 are supposed to do in that case? 4 A. If I know that a tenant is dealing drugs? 5 Q. Out of their room, what's the policy of what 6 you are supposed to do? 7 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. Incomplete 8 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. Calls for 9 speculation. 10 THE WITNESS: I would tell property 11 management, I would mention it. 12 BY MR. WEISS: 13 Q. And why would you do that? 14 MR. ELLIS: Same set of objections. 15 THE WITNESS: Because I'd be afraid it would 16 impact other tenants' wellness in a hotel community. 17 BY MR. WEISS: 18 Q. And if a tenant that you are working with is 19 using drugs on the premises, do you ever have concerns 20 that that would affect the wellness of other tenants? 21 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 22 THE WITNESS: It depends on the actions of the 23 other tenant with regard to the community. We have lots 24 of tenants who use drugs. 25 0067 1 BY MR. WEISS: 2 Q. How do you know that? 3 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 4 THE WITNESS: You know what? It's an 5 assumption. I have some tenants who self report. But 6 it's an assumption. So I don't know. 7 BY MR. WEISS: 8 Q. So at least the tenants you work with, some of 9 them just tell you they are using drugs. Correct? 10 A. Some of them tell me that they need help. 11 Q. Do you have any training in recognizing the 12 signs of drug use? 13 A. Some. We have talked about it. When I was 14 hired -- when I was hired, that was one of the hire 15 questions. 16 Q. What do you mean? 17 A. That was one -- that was one of the questions 18 that I was asked. 19 Q. If you know how to recognize drug use? 20 A. Or -- yes. 21 Q. So one of the questions is: Would you know 22 how to recognize if someone is using drugs of some sort? 23 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 24 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. 25 THE WITNESS: I don't recall exactly what the 0068 1 question was, but something along those lines. 2 BY MR. WEISS: 3 Q. And do you know why? Did anyone else tell you 4 why they asked that? 5 A. I don't remember that they specifically told 6 me. I know that when I got the job, I was told that the 7 population that I was working with would be, you know, 8 would have various drug and mental health issues. 9 Q. And what training were you given at the THC 10 insofar as recognizing drug use is concerned? 11 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 12 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. 13 THE WITNESS: I don't know that I was given 14 any training. It was discussed, but it wasn't a 15 training. 16 BY MR. WEISS: 17 Q. When you say it's discussed, can you give me 18 more specific? 19 A. Well, like when we have our -- when we have 20 our supervisions with our supervisors, the supervisor 21 might ask of a certain tenant: What's your sense of 22 that person? Do you think that they are doing drugs? 23 And I give an opinion. 24 Or when I do my contact notes, you know -- 25 that was something that we got trained around -- when we 0069 1 do the contact notes, we were told that unless a tenant 2 discloses, we don't know that they are doing drugs. So 3 we can't specifically say that in the contact notes, but 4 we can say what we have observed about the tenant. 5 Q. Okay. And did you learn anything about 6 recognizing the signs of methamphetamine use? 7 A. No, no. 8 Q. Were you given any information about how to 9 recognize the signs of heroin use, for example? 10 A. No, not specifically. The kind of -- the 11 kinds of training that we get, like I said, are topic 12 oriented. 13 Like we did a 5150 training. And in that 5150 14 training, that was one thing that was touched on. Is 15 the person really having a psyche episode or is the 16 episode caused by drug overdose, you know? And then, 17 there was a discussion about that. And part of that 18 discussion was, you know, the kinds of symptoms a person 19 would be exhibiting, say, if they were on heroin as 20 opposed to the kind of symptoms that they exhibit if 21 they were on some kind of amphetamine. 22 Q. And what specifically did you learn about that 23 in these seminars? 24 A. Well, I learned that people who were on -- the 25 5150 training, we learned that -- we discussed that 0070 1 people who were on stimulants were a lot more likely to 2 be 5150 because they were a lot more erratic in their 3 behavior and tended to be more violent. 4 Q. And a 5150, what did you learn are the 5 categories to have that welfare institutions code 6 section affected? 7 A. Well, a person had to be a danger to 8 themselves or a danger to someone else. 9 Q. What about gravely disabled? 10 A. Or gravely disabled. 11 Q. So did you go through drugs like methadone, 12 heroin, opiates, things like that? 13 A. Well, we didn't go through the drugs 14 specifically, they were kind of classed into categories. 15 Q. Like stimulants, opiates, that kind of thing? 16 A. Yeah, it was pretty brief -- usually when a 17 person is on stimulants, it's going to be like this, and 18 it's more likely that a 5150 will stick. 19 Q. What did you learn about stimulants, what kind 20 of characteristics would a person observe? 21 A. Well, the person was more likely to be -- more 22 likely to be emotional, because they have gone without 23 sleep, more likely to be, you know -- you know, more 24 likely to be agitated, combative. 25 Q. Okay. Anything else? 0071 1 A. That's all I can recall. 2 Q. Did you ever observe any of those 3 characteristics in Chanel Samuel? 4 A. Well, I observed that sometimes she seemed a 5 little twitchy. 6 Q. Is that, to you, the same as agitated? 7 A. Uh-huh, physically agitated. 8 Q. And you said "uh-huh", is that: Yes? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. So your answer would be: Yes, physically 11 agitated? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What about being combative? 14 A. I've never seen her be combative. 15 Q. What does combative mean to you? 16 A. Aggressive, trying to pick a fights with 17 people. 18 Q. Now, with your definition, when Chanel Samuel 19 threatened to, quote, "beat Mydra's ass," did that 20 indicate combativeness in the context of what you 21 learned about stimulant use? 22 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 23 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. 24 BY MR. WEISS: 25 Q. You can answer. 0072 1 A. Do you mean, did she seem like she was on 2 speed when she said it? 3 Q. Yes, right. 4 A. No, she didn't. 5 Q. But she was being combative, though. Right? 6 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 7 hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. Calls for 8 speculation. 9 BY MR. WEISS: 10 Q. You can answer. 11 A. She was being verbally threatening. But her 12 physical, you know, her physical actions, she was 13 walking out the door so she didn't seem particularly 14 combative, except verbally -- 15 Q. Except for threatening violence? 16 A. -- except for threatening. 17 MR. ELLIS: I didn't get a chance to object 18 before she answered. Incomplete hypothetical. Vague 19 and ambiguous. Calls for speculation. 20 BY MR. WEISS: 21 Q. And did you learn any signs of drug use of 22 someone repeating the same objection over and over 23 regardless of the question? That's a joke. You don't 24 have to answer that one. 25 You mentioned what Mr. Scott told you about 0073 1 the friendship or relationship or whatever type it was 2 between Mydra and Chanel. Aside from Mr. Scott, did you 3 observe anything else that indicated any sort of 4 friendship or lack thereof between Mydra and Chanel? 5 A. I'm trying to think. No. Any friendship or 6 lack thereof? You mean, did I observe anything -- 7 MR. ELLIS: The question is, I think was, did 8 Mr. Scott say anything about their friendship? 9 MR. WEISS: No. I said did she learn anything 10 else about it at all. 11 MR. ELLIS: Okay. 12 THE WITNESS: You mean whether they were 13 friends or whether they were enemies? 14 BY MR. WEISS: 15 Q. Right. 16 A. No, no. 17 Q. So all your information about that came from 18 Mr. Scott basically? 19 A. Mr. Scott and then Mydra when I spoke to her. 20 Q. And when you saw Chanel threaten Mydra and 21 then walk away, did that involve the loan of money of 22 some kind? 23 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 24 THE WITNESS: Well, I didn't know what it 25 involved at the time. 0074 1 BY MR. WEISS: 2 Q. Did you ever learn after? 3 A. Afterward I heard that it was about a loan. 4 Q. Where did you hear that? 5 A. From Eric. 6 Q. Did you ever observe Eric ever talking to 7 Mydra? 8 A. In passing. 9 Q. Meaning you might have just seen them talking? 10 A. Uh-huh. Like, you know, he would stand 11 outside the hotel, that's where he would be, and she 12 would come in and say "Hi". 13 Q. Does Mr. Scott just ever hang around outside 14 the hotel? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Standing out front? 17 A. Yes. Their porch. 18 Q. And does he stand out there smoking 19 cigarettes, do you know, or just hanging out? 20 A. He stands outside, he smokes. 21 Q. Have you ever learned about any policies that 22 the THC has about threats of violence in the workplace? 23 MR. ELLIS: Vague and ambiguous. Incomplete 24 hypothetical. 25 MR. WEISS: Can I just say something? How can 0075 1 asking if she learned something be a hypothetical or 2 speculation? 3 MR. ELLIS: I don't think I objected to 4 speculation. I think I said vague and ambiguous because 5 to me the description of the policy was vague. Meaning 6 the contents of the policy may not match the title or 7 the title of the policy may not match the contents. I 8 don't particularly know that she knows the existence of 9 all the policies -- not simply follow your description. 10 BY MR. WEISS: 11 Q. Let's do it this way. Do you know whether the 12 THC has a policy about threat of violence in the 13 workplace? 14 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't know. Threat of 16 violence by employees? 17 BY MR. WEISS: 18 Q. Yes. 19 A. No, I don't know. 20 Q. Have you ever learned that the THC has a 21 policy about what an employee is supposed to do if he or 22 she perceives a threat to his or her safety? 23 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 24 THE WITNESS: No. I know that harassment, I 25 know that an employee is supposed to go to their 0076 1 supervisor. 2 BY MR. WEISS: 3 Q. What do you mean by harassment? 4 A. Well, it was a whole training on sexual 5 harassment training. 6 Q. Do you know whether the THC has something 7 called a violence incident report? 8 A. I know that for incidents in the hotel, 9 violent incidents, there is an incident report. We have 10 a support services incident report. There is a property 11 management incident report. You know, I always think of 12 those as being for -- being for tenant involvement or 13 police involvement with tenants. 14 Q. Oh. Have you ever learned whether the THC has 15 a policy about maintaining a safe work environment for 16 it's employees? 17 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague. 18 THE WITNESS: I believe they do. 19 BY MR. WEISS: 20 Q. How did you learn about that? 21 A. I don't recall. Just an assumption, it's an 22 assumption that THC needs to provide a safe work 23 environment for us. 24 Q. Have you ever learned what you are supposed to 25 do if you perceive a threat of violence in the 0077 1 workplace? 2 A. If I perceive a threat of violence in the 3 workplace, I'm supposed to go to a safe space and call 4 for assistance. 5 Q. What are you supposed to do if you perceive a 6 threat of violence between two employees of the THC? 7 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 8 Incomplete hypothetical. Vague and ambiguous. 9 THE WITNESS: What am I supposed to do if I 10 perceive a threat of violence between two employees? If 11 it's immediate violence, I'm supposed to go to a safe 12 place and call a supervisor, someone to intervene. I'm 13 not sure. 14 BY MR. WEISS: 15 Q. I don't think you understood my question. 16 What if you observed a threat of violence between two 17 other employees of the THC, not you but two others, what 18 are you supposed to do? 19 MR. ELLIS: Incomplete hypothetical. Vague 20 and ambiguous. Calls for speculation. 21 THE WITNESS: I think -- Supposed to do? I 22 don't -- I don't know. I mean, with tenants we are 23 supposed to assess the threat and I think that's what we 24 do, that's what we generally do, but I don't know. 25 0078 1 BY MR. WEISS: 2 Q. But you never had any training on what to do 3 if you observe one employee threaten another? 4 A. No, I don't recall. 5 Q. Now, did you ever see a copy of an employee 6 manual from the THC? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Do you have to sign off when you receive it 9 that you have it? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did you also have to sign off that you read 12 all the policies? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Is there a copy of your employee handbook in 15 your office? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Are there any other manuals that you have to 18 sign off on, aside from the employee manual? 19 A. No, I don't believe so. 20 Q. This employee manual that you have, is it in a 21 booklet form, three-ring binder? 22 A. It's booklet, yes. 23 Q. Is it also maintained on the THC's computer 24 system data base? 25 A. Yes. 0079 1 Q. When you talked to Mydra after Chanel was, you 2 mentioned, threatening her, did you try to refer Mydra 3 to any sort of resource to deal with it? 4 A. I asked her to -- I asked her to make a 5 report. 6 Q. And aside from that, did you say: Maybe you 7 should get some counseling or talk to someone about 8 this? 9 A. No, no. I told her she could talk to me 10 whenever she needed to. 11 Q. Now, typically you would not provide 12 counseling or resource referrals to an employee, would 13 you? 14 A. Oh, counseling or resource referrals? 15 Q. To another employee? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. You would? 18 A. I wouldn't formally refer them. But if they 19 asked me where they could get help, I would tell them. 20 Q. But as part of your job, you don't also 21 provide resource referrals to other employees, do you? 22 A. No. 23 Q. So as I understand it then, if someone just 24 came to you and would say: Laure, I am having a problem 25 with such and such, do you know any place where I could 0080 1 get help, then you would help them? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Are workers who are off duty allowed to stay 4 on the premises? 5 A. I don't know. 6 Q. On a daily basis, how often would you see 7 Chanel Samuel? 8 A. Sometimes I wouldn't see her at all. 9 Q. Do you know if -- is there an elevator to the 10 basement of the Hartland Hotel also? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Is there any special key required to make the 13 elevator go down to the basement? 14 A. Yes, I believe so. 15 Q. Where are the keys maintained for that 16 elevator? 17 A. I don't know, I am not property management. 18 Q. Do you know if keys to elevators are kept 19 behind the desk, for example? 20 A. I couldn't say where they are kept. 21 Q. On the day of this alleged assault, do you 22 know if Chanel got to the basement by using the 23 elevator? 24 A. I don't know. I was in my office when she 25 walked by. 0081 1 Q. When she walked by what? 2 A. I said, I was in my office when she walked by. 3 Q. Did you see her when you were in your office? 4 If you were in your office, how could you see her walk 5 by is my question? 6 A. Because the front door is here. My office 7 door -- my office door let's out right where the front 8 door. I can see who comes in and out. 9 Q. When you went down to the basement and saw 10 Mydra lying there all bloody, did you see a pipe of any 11 kind with blood on it? 12 A. No. 13 Q. And you saw bloody handprints on the wall, did 14 you say? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And which wall would that be? 17 A. As you walked down the stairs, the wall that's 18 facing the stairs. 19 Q. What is the lighting like down in the basement 20 where you saw Mydra lying? 21 A. Not great. It's a bulb, bare bulb. 22 Q. Have you ever learned from your training or 23 employment at the THC whether there is something called 24 a Tarasoff warning policy? 25 A. Yes. 0082 1 Q. What is that policy? 2 A. Tarasoff warning? 3 Q. Tarasoff warning policy. What have you 4 learned -- what is it from your employment that you have 5 learned? 6 A. A Tarrasoff -- if we find that one person, one 7 tenant is planning to do someone harm, we -- 8 confidentiality aside, we are obligated to report that 9 to the person that the tenant is threatening and also to 10 the police. 11 Q. Now, this confidentiality policy, isn't it 12 true that conversations between tenants and case 13 managers are not considered confidential from the case 14 managers supervisor? 15 A. Uh-uh, no, not confidential to the 16 supervisor -- not confidential from the supervisor. 17 Q. So if you learned from a tenant about drug 18 use, you could tell your supervisor about it. Correct? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. And it's also not confidential from other 21 professionals involved in the treatment and or support 22 of the tenant. Correct? 23 A. It's not confidential from some. Say -- yes, 24 it's not confidential from some. There are places 25 outside of the -- outside of the hotel that operate 0083 1 under the same umbrella of services that the hotel 2 operates on, not confidential from them. 3 Q. And conversations between tenants and case 4 managers are also not confidential concerning 5150 5 cases. Correct? 6 A. I'm sorry, what? 7 Q. So a conversation between a tenant and a case 8 manager about a specific issue or problem is not 9 confidential in a 5150 case. Right? 10 A. It's not confidential from who? 11 Q. From anyone? 12 A. I don't know. I guess not. 13 Q. If you learned from a tenant information that 14 would suggest a 5150 call should being made, you would 15 make the call, wouldn't you? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. If you knew someone was a danger to themselves 18 or others, would you keep that confidential? 19 A. No, no. 20 Q. If you learned that someone was grave or 21 disabled, for example, from drug use, you wouldn't keep 22 that confidential, would you? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Do tenants have to sign something called: 25 Consent for Services? 0084 1 A. Yes. They don't have to. 2 Q. Is information learned from a case manager 3 about a tenant confidential if that tenant's behavior is 4 observed in public areas of the building? 5 A. No, I don't think so. Everyone would know 6 about it if it was in a public area. 7 Q. Right. I don't know, I am just asking what 8 the policy is. 9 Is information concerning a tenant 10 confidential if the tenant has made a threat to harm 11 someone else? 12 A. No, no, not confidential in the case of 13 threats. 14 Q. Is it true that support service coordinators 15 will have access to any tenant file held by property 16 management as needed? 17 A. Yes, I believe so. 18 Q. You mentioned harm reduction earlier in your 19 testimony. What is harm reduction policy? 20 A. Well, I mean, I don't know word for word the 21 policy. 22 Q. What is your knowledge of it? You don't have 23 to give me word for word. 24 A. I know that tenants in the building -- tenants 25 in the building aren't -- aren't forced to seek 0085 1 treatment for, you know, their habits or addictions or 2 anything like that and that we can't force them -- we 3 can't force them to take treatment or counseling or 4 referrals from us. It's on an at-will basis, I think. 5 Q. Is it true that all of the tenants living in 6 hotels are eligible to participate in support services 7 offered through the THC? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Does the THC have any support services program 10 for employees? 11 A. No, not specifically. I never heard of that. 12 Q. Do you know if Chanel Samuel's father ever 13 worked at the THC? 14 A. I don't know. 15 Q. Have you ever heard of a person named Bryan 16 Samuel? 17 A. No. 18 Q. When you talked to Colleen about this 19 incident, did Colleen mention whether she was going to 20 have Chanel evicted from the hotel? 21 A. I don't recall. You know, I think -- I am 22 volunteering again -- I think I might have asked 23 someone, maybe Colleen, maybe Jeff. 24 Q. How many times have you talked to Colleen 25 about the incident? 0086 1 A. I couldn't say, but not very many. 2 Q. Well, we know that one time occurred the day 3 of the incident. Right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. She showed up at the hotel? 6 A. Yes, yes. And then one time they were -- they 7 were arranging counseling for us and Colleen came and 8 she told me about that. 9 Q. And when you say "arranging counseling for 10 us," what do you mean? 11 A. Arranging -- THC arranged a counselor to come 12 in and have kind of a group session with the employees 13 at the Hartland. 14 Q. Just from traumatized by seeing all the blood 15 and things? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And what did Colleen say at that time about 18 the incident? 19 A. She said -- she said: I know that -- 20 something along the lines of -- I know that this has 21 been really traumatic. I know that you were right 22 there, Laure, that you stayed with her, Mydra, for a 23 long time. And I want to let you know that we are going 24 to have someone come in to -- I think she said -- to 25 talk to you about -- someone that you can talk to about 0087 1 what happened. And that you don't have to come -- you 2 don't have to participate if you don't want to, but if 3 you do, management will make the time for you to go and 4 participate in the group. 5 Q. Okay. Did you do that? 6 A. Yes, I did. I had a meeting -- I had a 7 meeting that day, but I did participate. 8 Q. Do you know if anyone else did? 9 A. I believe, yes, yes. 10 Q. And who do you think went there? 11 A. I don't know, I don't feel comfortable saying 12 since it was a group. 13 Q. Okay. That's all right. 14 A. It was all members of the Hartland. 15 Q. I understand, it would be people who were 16 around? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. After Chanel was evicted, did anyone go to 19 inspect her unit, that you know of? 20 A. Not that I know of. But I know that she 21 didn't come back to her unit. 22 Q. Right. 23 A. And I am sure it had to be prepped for 24 renting. 25 Q. Now, have you heard that drug paraphernalia 0088 1 was found in her room after she was evicted? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Say someone is evicted and the room is being 4 cleaned out and drug paraphernalia was there, do you 5 know what happened to the drug paraphernalia? 6 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 7 THE WITNESS: I don't know. I believe it 8 would be thrown away, but I don't know. 9 BY MR. WEISS: 10 Q. Do you know whatever happened to any of 11 Chanel's belongings in her unit after she was out of 12 there? 13 A. I don't know specifically what happened to 14 Chanel's stuff. I know they keep property for I think 15 30 days. 16 Q. Have you ever heard of anything called the "86 17 list" at the hotel? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. What is the 86 list? 20 A. Eighty-six list is people who for one reason 21 or another aren't allowed back into the hotel. 22 Q. Do you get copies of the 86 list? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Did you have access to it? 25 A. It's pinned on to the front desk. It's pinned 0089 1 up on the front desk. 2 Q. Have you seen that before? 3 A. I have. 4 Q. Do you know if Chanel was ever put on the 86 5 list? 6 A. I don't know. 7 Q. Has anyone ever told you that Chanel was on 8 the 86 list? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Do you know if Chanel were to get out of jail 11 now, if she would be eligible to move back into the 12 hotel? 13 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, I am not sure. But I don't 15 think so. 16 BY MR. WEISS: 17 Q. You said that you knew Mydra worked at the 18 hotel? 19 A. Uh-huh. Yes, I'm sorry. 20 Q. Do you know what hours she worked? 21 A. No, I don't know exactly what hours she 22 worked. 23 Q. Do janitors work in the evening or different 24 shifts? 25 A. Janitors do have different shifts. 0090 1 Q. You mentioned that you saw Mydra working as a 2 desk clerk, you said? 3 A. Yes. She was sitting in for the desk clerk so 4 that the desk clerk could take their lunch. 5 Q. Is that some arrangement that the hotel has 6 that janitors sit in as a desk clerk to relieve someone 7 for their lunch break? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. You say that you saw Chanel Samuel do that as 10 well as Mydra? 11 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Misstates testimony. 12 THE WITNESS: Actually, you know, I don't 13 think I ever said that I thought that I saw Chanel doing 14 that. I think I did see her. I think I did see her. 15 But I -- I never -- I didn't see Chanel at the hotel 16 very often. 17 BY MR. WEISS: 18 Q. Have you ever seen Chanel working in the 19 basement? 20 A. Well, I don't go down to the basement that 21 much, but yes. 22 MR. ELLIS: The last little bit of deposition 23 you are kind of qualifying your answer. Just listen to 24 the question and just answer and it will go a little 25 quicker. 0091 1 BY MR. WEISS: 2 Q. I am not objecting. Prior to the day of the 3 incident, did you ever observe Chanel going down to the 4 basement? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Was she on duty when she did that? 7 A. I don't know. 8 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 9 BY MR. WEISS: 10 Q. Do the janitors have to wear any particular 11 uniform or type to clothes to do their job? 12 A. I am not sure if it's a rule, but they 13 generally wear the jumpsuits. 14 Q. Have you ever seen Chanel wearing the 15 jumpsuit, as you call it, while she was working? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Have you ever seen Chanel wearing the jumpsuit 18 walking down to the basement prior to the day of the 19 incident? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Would Mydra also wear the work jumpsuit while 22 she was on duty? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Do you know how old Mydra is? 25 A. No. 0092 1 Q. Do you know how old Chanel is? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Are there facilities on the premises to make 4 meals? 5 A. No. Does a microwave count? 6 Q. Sure. 7 A. Okay. There is a microwave. 8 Q. Where is that located? 9 A. It's in the community room in back -- in the 10 room that's in back of the community room, it has a sink 11 and there is a microwave. 12 Q. Who is allowed to use that? 13 A. Anyone, any of the tenants and employees. 14 Q. Is anyone allowed behind the front desk? 15 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 16 THE WITNESS: No, not anyone. 17 BY MR. WEISS: 18 Q. What are the restrictions that you know of? 19 A. Well, tenants aren't allowed behind the front 20 desk. 21 Q. How about employees? 22 A. As far as I know, employees are allowed behind 23 the front desk. 24 Q. Are employees allowed to go behind the front 25 desk if they are off duty? 0093 1 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 2 THE WITNESS: I don't know if there is a rule 3 against it. 4 BY MR. WEISS: 5 Q. On the 29th, were you aware that Chanel had an 6 argument with Mydra, the day before the alleged assault? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Did you ever hear any doors slamming and 9 Chanel yelling the day before the incident? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Aside from the day that you talked to Mydra 12 after Chanel threatened her with violence, did you ever 13 talk to Mydra again about any problems that she had with 14 Chanel? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did Mr. Scott ever mention to you that Chanel 17 had thought about committing an act of violence against 18 Mydra? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Because I remember you said earlier today that 21 there was this general talk with Mr. Scott about the 22 incident and reasons why it might have happened. During 23 those discussions, did he ever say that he thought 24 Chanel might have committed an act of violence against 25 Mydra? 0094 1 A. That he thought she would? 2 Q. Right. 3 A. No. Because Mydra is much larger than Chanel, 4 he said that he didn't think that what had happened 5 would have happened either, because Mydra was so big. 6 Q. Did Mr. Scott know, when you talked to him 7 about that, did Chanel used a pipe to hit Mydra? 8 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Misstates testimony. 9 Calls for speculation. 10 THE WITNESS: He said -- I don't know. There 11 were a lot of people saying a lot of different things. 12 Some people said pipe, some people said a broom stick. 13 I can't remember exactly which one of those he said. 14 BY MR. WEISS: 15 Q. Did Mr. Scott ever mention to you that he knew 16 that Chanel used some sort of object to hit Mydra -- 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. -- regardless of what it was? Did he say 19 whether he knew that Chanel was hiding, waiting for 20 Mydra so that she could attack her? 21 A. Let's see. I think when he described what he 22 thought happened, that that's what he described. 23 Q. Do you know how Mr. Scott learned all this 24 stuff? 25 A. I don't know. I don't know how they know what 0095 1 they know. 2 Q. Was Mr. Scott's room close to Chanel's room? 3 A. You know, I am not sure. I don't even 4 remember which room Chanel had. 5 Q. I heard it was 602. Does that sound right? 6 If you don't know, you don't know. Don't guess. 7 A. Yes. I don't know. 8 Q. Do you know if Chanel had a criminal record at 9 all? 10 A. After the incident happened, I heard that she 11 did. 12 Q. What did you hear? 13 A. I don't exactly remember what the criminal 14 record was for. I don't remember what they said. But 15 they said that -- I think it was Eric, I am not sure, in 16 that conversation said that -- or it might have been 17 someone else -- said that whatever sentence she got for 18 what happened with Mydra would be made much worse by her 19 prior record. And that it was -- it would be made much 20 worse by her prior record. That she was on probation, I 21 guess. 22 Q. Do you know if Chanel had ever been arrested 23 for drug use? 24 A. I don't know what about. 25 Q. Do you know if Chanel had ever been arrested 0096 1 for some act of violence prior to this incident? 2 A. Yes -- I don't know. 3 Q. Did you ever have a conversation with Chanel 4 after this incident that you witnessed to discuss what 5 happened between her and Mydra? 6 A. No. No. 7 Q. Did you tell Colleen at any time that you 8 witnessed Chanel threaten Mydra with violence prior to 9 this incident? 10 A. No, I don't believe I did. 11 Q. Do you know if Colleen knew about it? 12 A. I'm not sure if she knew about it. 13 Q. Do you know if Chanel ever had any issues with 14 Jesus, been involved arguing or shouting? 15 A. Not that I know of. 16 Q. Did Jesus ever say anything to you about him 17 having problems with Chanel? 18 A. No, no, he didn't. I think he said she was a 19 good worker. 20 Q. Did he ever talk to you about testifying at 21 the criminal proceeding? 22 A. No. 23 Q. Did James Kang ever talk to you about his 24 testimony at the criminal proceeding? 25 A. He didn't talk to me about what he said. I 0097 1 think he mentioned that he did it. I asked him and he 2 said that he wasn't supposed to talk about it. 3 Q. Do you know if Eddy ever attended the criminal 4 hearing? 5 A. No, I don't know. I don't think he did. 6 Q. Does Eddy work usually the same hours as you? 7 A. Uh-huh. 8 Q. Yes? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Were you ever told by anyone at the THC not to 11 discuss the incident after it occurred? 12 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Asked and answered. 13 THE WITNESS: Yes. 14 BY MR. WEISS: 15 Q. And who did that? Who told you, I'm sorry? 16 A. I don't -- I don't exactly recall. I think it 17 was Jeff Buckley. 18 Q. Are you sure it wasn't Colleen? 19 MR. ELLIS: Asked and answered. 20 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 21 BY MR. WEISS: 22 Q. Did you ever receive any writings or e-mails 23 that you shouldn't discuss the incident? 24 A. I receive a lot of e-mails, I don't remember. 25 Q. Were you ever instructed by anyone at THC 0098 1 management not to talk to the press or media about the 2 incident? 3 A. I've been instructed just not to talk to the 4 press, the media at all, maybe not specifically about 5 this incident. 6 Q. When did you receive that instruction? After 7 the incident? 8 A. No, before, when I was hired. 9 Q. What were you told? 10 A. I was told if there is any press -- if there 11 was any situation which the press wanted to talk to me 12 about work or about THC, that I should refer them to my 13 supervisor. 14 Q. Were you told that you would be disciplined if 15 you talked to the press without referring them to your 16 supervisor? 17 A. No, I wasn't told that I would be disciplined. 18 Q. Were you told there would be any consequences 19 to you if you talked to the press without telling the 20 supervisor first? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did you ever ask why you weren't supposed to 23 talk to the press? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Did any news media ever inquire at the hotel 0099 1 about this incident, that you know of? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Do you receive e-mail communications from 4 management at THC? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Is that usually how you receive 7 communications, through e-mails? 8 A. It's a large part of how I receive 9 communications. 10 Q. Do you know a worker at the Hartland named 11 Maria? 12 A. Oh, yes. 13 Q. What's Maria's last name? 14 A. I don't know her last name. 15 Q. What's her job there? 16 A. Well, she -- she doesn't work there anymore -- 17 she was a desk clerk. 18 Q. I thought that there was a memo that went out 19 after the incident where Mydra got attacked that told 20 employees at the hotel not to talk to anyone about the 21 incident. Do you recall ever seeing that? 22 A. There might have been. I don't exactly 23 recall. Because we were talking about it, we were all 24 talking about it among ourselves, so that's what I 25 remember. 0100 1 Q. What I'm talking about is a memo telling you 2 not to talk to people outside, like the press or anyone, 3 about the incident. 4 A. Maybe there was. 5 Q. You don't recall for sure? 6 A. Not for sure. I mean maybe there was. 7 Q. Did you ever talk to Maria about the incident? 8 A. We might have talked about it. Maria and I, 9 we might have talked about it. 10 Q. Are there surveillance cameras in the lobby? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Now, do you know if the surveillance cameras 13 tape people coming in or whatever they are looking at? 14 A. I am not sure of the orientation of the 15 cameras, but yes. 16 Q. Do you know if there is surveillance cameras 17 in the basement as well? 18 A. No, I don't think there is surveillance in the 19 basement. 20 Q. Do you know someone named Maddie that works at 21 the Hartland? 22 A. I met her and I know of her. She is a desk 23 clerk. 24 Q. Did you ever talk to her about the incident? 25 A. No. But then I never see her. 0101 1 Q. Did anyone from the district attorney's office 2 ever come to the hotel to ask about the incident? 3 A. I think so. But nobody talked to me. 4 Q. Do you know if anyone from the police came 5 after the incident to investigate the incident? 6 A. I think -- I think so. Yes, yes, I believe 7 they did. 8 Q. I think that's all the questions that I have. 9 (The deposition of LAURE McELROY was concluded at 10 12:15 p.m.) 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 0102 1 STATE OF __________________________) ) ss. 2 COUNTY OF _________________________) 3 4 5 6 7 I, the undersigned, declare under penalty of 8 perjury that I have read the foregoing transcript, and I 9 have made corrections, additions or deletions that I was 10 desirous of making; that the foregoing is a true and 11 correct transcript of my testimony contained therein. 12 13 EXECUTED this ____ day of _________________ of 14 20 ___, at ____________________, ___________________. [City] [State] 15 16 17 18 19 20 _________________________ 21 LAURE McELROY 22 23 24 25 0103