1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 IN AND FOR THE CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO 3 4 MYDRA MCGARR, Plaintiff, 5 versus NO. CGC 08-478204 6 TENDERLOIN HOUSING CLINIC, 7 INC., CHANEL SAMUEL, and DOES 1 to 25, 8 inclusive, Defendants. 9 ____________________________/ 10 11 12 13 DEPOSITION OF JAMES HOLLAND 14 FEBRUARY 13, 2009 SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA 15 16 17 18 19 20 ATKINSON-BAKER, INC. COURT REPORTERS 21 800-288-3376 www.depo.com 22 REPORTED BY: DEBRA L. ACEVEDO-RAMIREZ, RPR, CSR. 7692 23 FILE NO: A30113D 24 25 1 1 I N D E X 2 DEPOSITION OF JAMES HOLLAND 3 FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 13, 2009 PAGE 4 EXAMINATION BY MR. WEISS 5 5 6 E X H I B I T S 7 8 A - DRUG AND ALCOHOL USE POLICY 17 9 B - DRUG AND ALCOHOL USE POLICY 28 10 C - TENDERLOIN HOUSING CLINIC CODE OF PROFESSIONAL CONDUCT/STAFF RULES (2 pages) 66 11 D - INCIDENT REPORT - HARTLAND HOTEL 94 12 13 --o0o-- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 2 1 SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA 2 IN AND FOR THE CITY AND COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO 3 4 MYDRA MCGARR, Plaintiff, 5 versus NO. CGC 08-478204 6 TENDERLOIN HOUSING CLINIC, 7 INC., CHANEL SAMUEL, and DOES 1 to 25, 8 inclusive, Defendants. 9 ____________________________/ 10 11 Pursuant to Notice of Taking of Deposition, 12 and on February 13, 2009, commencing at the hour of 13 11:14 a.m. thereof, at the LAW OFFICES OF WILLIAM E. 14 WEISS, 130 Sutter Street, 7th Floor, San Francisco, 15 California 94104, before me, DEBRA L. ACEVEDO-RAMIREZ, 16 Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the City and 17 County of San Francisco, State of California, there 18 personally appeared: 19 JAMES HOLLAND, 20 called as a witness by the plaintiff, who, being by me 21 first duly sworn, was thereupon examined and 22 interrogated as hereinafter set forth. 23 --0o0-- 24 25 3 1 A P P E A R A N C E S 2 3 For the Plaintiff: 4 LAW OFFICES OF WILLIAM E. WEISS BY: WILLIAM E. WEISS, ESQ. 5 130 Sutter Street, 7th Floor San Francisco, California 94104 6 415-362-6765 7 For the Defendants: 8 KENNICK & ASSOCIATES BY: JOHN C. ELLIS, ESQ. 9 THE CHAPMAN BUILDING 110 E. Wilshire Avenue, Suite 401 10 Fullerton, California 92832 jellis@kennicklaw.com 11 714-992-6600 12 Also Present: Mydra McGarr 13 --0o0-- 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 1 JAMES HOLLAND, 2 having been sworn by the Court Reporter to testify the 3 truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth 4 testified as follows: 5 THE WITNESS: Yes, I do. 6 EXAMINATION 7 BY MR. WEISS: Q. Would you please state your 8 name and address. 9 A. James Holland. 10 Q. You can give us your business address. 11 A. 449 Turk Street. 12 MR. WEISS: And counsel, we have the same 13 agreement with Mr. Holland to the other subpoenas and 14 whatnot? 15 MR. ELLIS: Yes. 16 MR. WEISS: Okay. Mr. Holland, my name is 17 Bill Weiss. We never got introduced, but I represent 18 Mydra and her action against the Tenderloin Housing 19 Clinic, once referred to as THC, and I am going to ask 20 you some questions about this incident where she was 21 injured and various other procedures and so forth about 22 the THC. 23 Before we get into that, let me ask you: Have 24 you ever had your deposition taken before? 25 A. This would be the first time. 5 1 Q. All right. I will go over some of the rules 2 with you. 3 The oath you took is the same one you take as 4 if you are sitting in court. We're here in my 5 conference room and we're dressed informally today, but 6 it has the same impact as you would take the oath in 7 court. 8 Do you understand that? 9 A. Yes, I do. 10 Q. Same penalties of perjury and all that. 11 Do you understand that? 12 A. Yes, I do. 13 Q. Okay. And you are doing good so far. The 14 court reporter can only take down one of us at a time 15 and everything that we say here today will be typed and 16 put into a booklet like this transcript, question and 17 answer; and at some point when it's done, you will get 18 a chance to read through it, and you can make any 19 changes that you want in it. But, if you make changes, 20 you should know that we can comment on them later as to 21 why did you do it, it could be embarrassing and it 22 could even serve as impeachment, so you want try to 23 give us your best memory of everything we are asking. 24 You also don't have to guess or speculate 25 about things. You will be asked probably about dates 6 1 and times and so forth. If you don't remember, you can 2 just say so and we will try to get an estimate of when, 3 what time or what day or what week or something like 4 that. 5 If I ask you a question that doesn't make 6 sense, just let me know. If you answer a question, I'm 7 assuming you understood it. But, if -- you know, if you 8 raise a point that I don't get what you are driving at 9 in that question, I'll re-ask it in such a way it's 10 clear. 11 If you need to take a break for any reason, 12 we're glad to do that. 13 You have to answer out loud so the court 14 reporter can take down your testimony, so you want to 15 avoid saying uh-huh or huh-huh, for example, instead of 16 yes and no, or just nodding your head or making a 17 gesture. If you forget that, I'll remind you during 18 the deposition today. I don't know if it's going to 19 take super long, but anyway, that's the general rule. 20 So, let's move on. 21 Q. Did you look at any sort of documents or 22 writings to help refresh your memory for today's 23 deposition? 24 A. I have not. 25 Q. Okay. Did you talk to anyone -- aside from 7 1 Mr. Ellis here, did you talk to anyone about your 2 deposition? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did you tell anyone you were going to come 5 here for a deposition? 6 A. My staff knows where I am today. 7 Q. Okay. And what is your position now at the 8 Tenderloin Housing Clinic? 9 A. I'm the director of property management. 10 Q. All right. And in May of 2008, what was your 11 title? 12 A. Director of property management. 13 Q. And can you give me just a summary of your 14 educational background? 15 A. High school diploma and I have two years of 16 college. 17 Q. Where did you go to high school? 18 A. Abilene High in Abilene, Texas. 19 A. When did you graduate from there? 20 A. '88. 21 Q. Where did you take your college courses at? 22 A. Los Angeles Community College. 23 Q. Any particular emphasis? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Just general education? 8 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And what about within the last -- how long 3 have you worked for the THC? 4 A. I've been with them for four years. 5 Q. And prior to that, where were you working? 6 A. I worked for Tenderloin Neighborhood 7 Development Corporation. 8 Q. What did you do over there? 9 A. Property manager. 10 Q. Do they also have SRO type hotels? 11 A. Yes, they do. 12 Q. How long did you work as a property manager 13 there? 14 A. Oh, probably two years for them. 15 Q. Okay. And before then, where were you 16 working? 17 A. I worked for Skid Row Housing Trust. 18 Q. Where was that? 19 A. Los Angeles. 20 Q.. What did you do down there? 21 A. I was a property manager for them also. I 22 started out as a property manager. 23 Q. What kind of properties did they manage? 24 A. It was SROs. 25 Q. You said you started at property manager. 9 1 Were you promoted there at some point? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What were you doing there? 4 A. Property. I was property supervisor for 5 them. 6 Q. Okay. Now one thing I've got to emphasize. 7 Only one of us can talk at a time, so she can get it all 8 down. I'll let you finish your answer, so you let me 9 finish my questions. Let's try to stick with that. 10 What position did you come in at THC? 11 A. THC, I came in as the assistant manager of 12 the Seneca Hotel. 13 Q. And tell me in a nutshell what your duties 14 were as an assistant manager? 15 A. I handle all tenant complaints, rental 16 issues. Anything to do with the property is my 17 responsibility to respond to those issues. 18 Q. All right. And what years were you assistant 19 manager at the Seneca? 20 A. Four years back. I guess that would be 2003 21 or so. 22 Q. Okay. And when did you get promoted from the 23 assistant manager? 24 A. I can't remember the exact month or year that 25 I was -- I didn't bother to keep up with that. 10 1 Q. After assistant manager -- let's put it this 2 way: What was your next position? 3 A. General manager. 4 Q. Would that be of a particular property? 5 A. It was also at the Seneca. 6 Q. And tell me in a nutshell what your duties 7 were as a general manager. 8 A. Basically the same as the assistant manager 9 duties. 10 Q. And after being general manager of the Seneca, 11 what's the next position you held? 12 A. Property manager. 13 Q. Is that what you are in now? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Were you property supervisor in May of 2008? 16 A. No, I wasn't there. 17 Q. What was your position there? 18 A. Director of property. 19 Q. What did you do as property supervisor? 20 A. I had a portfolio of four to five hotels 21 where I was in charge of the overall goals of the 22 property, rental income, tenant issues, staff issues. 23 Whatever the property needed, I was responsible for 24 making sure that it happened. 25 Q. Okay. And what level of management reported 11 1 to you as property supervisor? 2 A. The general managers and assistant managers. 3 Q. Okay. And then after property supervisor, you 4 went to a director job? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And when did you go to the director of 7 property management job? 8 A. I've been in this position almost two years 9 now. 10 Q. Okay. And again, in a nutshell, what are your 11 duties of a property manager? 12 A. Overall duties is develop policy, make sure 13 that the staff of our property management department 14 is trained and knowledgeable of all our policies and 15 procedures. 16 Q. All right. What position were you in in May 17 of 2008? 18 A. Director of property management. 19 Q. Okay. And the reason I keep bringing up May 20 of 2008, that's this incident that we're going to talk 21 about, happened May 30. So, I want to kind of see what 22 you were doing back then. 23 Okay. Did you talk to Colleen Carrigan about 24 her deposition at all, what she said, what she was 25 asked? 12 1 A. No. 2 Q. How about Jesus, did you talk to him about his 3 deposition? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Do you know who Lori McElroy is? 6 A. Yes, I do. 7 Q. Did you talk to her about her depo? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Did anyone report to you the content of any of 10 those people's depositions aside from Mr. Ellis? We 11 can't ask about that. 12 A. No. 13 Q. All right. As director of property management 14 in May of 2008, were you responsible for any particular 15 properties at the THC? 16 A. I'm responsible for all 16 properties. 17 Q. Okay. Let me ask you: Back in May of 2008, I 18 want to ask you some questions about policy. What 19 was the THC's policy about the tenants' use of illegal 20 drugs on the premises? 21 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Hypothetical. 22 MR. WEISS: Q. What is your knowledge -- what 23 is the policy -- what was the policy of the THC about a 24 tenant's illegal drug use on the premises of any of the 25 properties? 13 1 A. We do not keep track of what the tenants do 2 in their personal life. 3 Q. I'm sorry? 4 A. We do not keep track of what the tenants do 5 in their personal life. 6 Q. But was the policy that THC had in May of 7 2008, for example, to all allow tenants to use illegal 8 drugs on the premises? 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous 10 and incomplete hypothetical. 11 You can answer. 12 THE WITNESS: We don't keep track of what 13 tenants do in their personal life. 14 MR. WEISS: Q. Maybe you don't, but did the 15 THC condone tenants using illegal drugs on the premises 16 of the properties? 17 MR. ELLIS: Vague and ambiguous and incomplete 18 hypothetical. 19 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 20 THE WITNESS: Once again, we don't keep track 21 of what folks do in their personal life. What you do in 22 the privacy in your own unit is your business. 23 MR. WEISS: Q. No, I understand that, but did 24 the THC condone tenants using illegal drugs on the 25 premises? 14 1 MR. ELLIS: Vague and ambiguous and incomplete 2 hypothetical. 3 MR. WEISS: Q. I mean, someone smokes crystal 4 meth, you are okay with it? 5 MR. ELLIS: Hang on. Vague and ambiguous, 6 incomplete hypothetical, and I don't understand the 7 question. 8 MR. WEISS: Yeah, I agree and it's compound 9 also. You forgot that one. Let me ask another one. 10 He has to help me. I always say that. 11 Q. Did the THC in 2008 have tenants sign 12 agreements that they would not use illegal drugs on the 13 premises? 14 A. We do have a drug free addendum in our lease, 15 but once again, we are a harm reduction model and what 16 you do in the privacy of your own home is your 17 business. 18 Q. I know that. 19 MR. ELLIS: I'm reminding him to answer the 20 question. 21 MR. WEISS: Yeah, I got that part down but the 22 part I'm asking about is THC policies. I understand 23 about harm reduction and abstinence and this and that, 24 but what I want to know is in 2008, isn't it true that 25 the THC tenants had to sign an agreement as part of 15 1 their lease, they would not use illegal drugs on the 2 premises of the hotels? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. And isn't it also true that employees of the 5 THC had to sign a document acknowledging that they were 6 not allowed to use illegal drugs on the premises? 7 A. No. 8 Q. No. 9 In 2008, did the THC have something called 10 Drug and Alcohol Use Policy that was printed and the 11 employees had to sign and acknowledge? 12 A. I wasn't -- I'm not really aware of that 13 because obviously I wasn't hired in 2008.. 14 Q. What do you mean you weren't hired in 2008? 15 A. They signed a document in 2008 and our 16 orientation -- I'm not aware of that. 17 Q. So as you sit here today, you have no 18 knowledge whether employees in 2008 had to sign an 19 agreement -- or sorry -- strike that. 20 As you sit here today, you had no knowledge 21 that in 2008 employees of the THC had to sign an 22 Alcohol and Drug Use Policy? 23 MR. ELLIS: Asked and answered. It calls for 24 speculation. 25 THE WITNESS: I do not. 16 1 MR. WEISS: Q. Okay. Do you know who Colleen 2 Carrigan is? 3 A. Yes, I do. 4 Q. And who is she? 5 A. She is property supervisor. 6 Q. Do you know if she ever had to sign a Drug and 7 Alcohol Use Policy at the THC? 8 A. I do not know that. 9 Q. Have you ever signed such a document? 10 A.. I do not remember if I did -- if I did or I 11 did not. 12 MR. WEISS: Okay. Let's start out with this 13 and mark it as Exhibit A, please. Pass that to the 14 witness afterwards. 15 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit A was marked 16 for identification.) 17 MR. WEISS: And take a look at that, please. 18 MR. ELLIS: Do you want to go off the record 19 for a couple minutes? 20 MR. WEISS: No. No. 21 Q. Okay. Have you had a chance to look at that, 22 sir? 23 A. Yes, I have. 24 Q. Do you recognize Colleen Carrigan's signature 25 down there? 17 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. This is in March of 2005. Were you employed 3 by the THC then? 4 A. Yes, I was. 5 Q. Did you ever have to sign such a policy as 6 Colleen signed? 7 A. If I did, I don't remember. 8 Q. And the very first sentence starts off: 9 "The THC's concern about the use of alcohol, 10 illegal drugs, or controlled substances by 11 staff as it affects the workplace." 12 In 2008 was that the policy of the THC? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. And also: 15 "The possession or use of alcohol or being 16 under the influence of alcohol while on the 17 job is strictly prohibited by THC -- 18 Tenderloin Housing Clinic." 19 Was that the policy in 2008 of the THC? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Further, in the second paragraph of this 22 examination says: 23 "It is also a violation of the clinic's policy 24 to distribute, sell or purchase any illegal 25 or controlled substance while on the job." 18 1 Now, is that in 2008, the policy of the THC? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And you knew that, right? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And do you think you ever signed one of these 6 kind of documents? 7 A. I don't remember. 8 Q. And then the third paragraph states that: 9 "Due to the contracts that Tenderloin Housing 10 Clinic holds with the federal and state 11 government, the clinic is obligated to 12 comply with the state and federal Drug Free 13 Workplace Act." 14 Were you aware of that, sir, in 2008? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And were you familiar with rental agreements 17 that THC had people sign in 2008? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And how are you familiar with them? 20 A. It's in my role as director of property 21 management. I'm more than familiar with them.. 22 Q. Okay. And isn't it true that in 2008, there 23 was a lease addendum for drug free housing that tenants 24 had to sign for the THC? 25 A. Yes. 19 1 Q. You knew that, right? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Did you know that the lease addendum for drug 4 free housing, tenants had to sign in 2008 stated that 5 you or a guest under your control shall not engage in 6 criminal activity, including drug related criminal 7 activity, on or near the hotel? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. You knew that in 2008, right? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. And did you know that the lease addendum for 12 drug free housing in 2008 stated: 13 "Drug related criminal activity means the 14 illegal manufacture, sale, distribution, 15 use, or possession with intent to 16 manufacture, sell, distribute, or use, of a 17 controlled substance." 18 Did you know that? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. Did you also know in 2008 that the lease 21 addendum for drug free housing stated that: 22 "You or a guest under your control shall not 23 engage in any act intended to facilitate 24 criminal activity, including drug related 25 criminal activity, on or near property 20 1 premises"? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Did you further note in 2008 that the lease 4 addendum for drug free housing tenants were required to 5 sign stated: 6 "You will not permit the dwelling unit to be 7 used for or to facilitate criminal activity, 8 including drug related activity, regardless 9 of whether the individual engaging in such 10 activity is on the lease or a guest." 11 Did you know that. 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did you also know that this document -- the 14 lease addendum for drug free housing in 2008 stated: 15 "You will not engage in the manufacture, sale, 16 or distribution of illegal drugs at any 17 location whether on or near the hotel"? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. Did you know also that this lease addendum for 20 drug free housing in 2008 stated: 21 "You or a guest under your control shall not 22 engage in acts of violence, or threats of 23 violence, including, but not limited to the 24 unlawful discharge of firearms"? 25 A. Yes, I do know that. 21 1 Q. Did you also know that the same document I am 2 reading from states in capital letters: 3 "Violation of any of the above provisions 4 shall be material violation of the lease and 5 good cause for termination of tenancy"? 6 Did you know that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Did you know further that the same document 9 states: 10 "A single violation of any other provisions of 11 this addendum shall be deemed a serious 12 violation and a material noncompliance with 13 the lease"? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did you further know that the same documents 16 states: "It is understood and agreed that a single 17 violation shall be good cause for termination of the 18 lease." 19 Did you know that? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Did you also know that this lease addendum for 22 drug free housing in 2008 stated: 23 "Unless otherwise provided by law, proof of 24 violation shall not require criminal 25 conviction but shall be by a preponderance 22 1 of the evidence"? 2 Did you know that? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did you also know that this document, the 5 lease addendum, states: 6 "The lease addendum is incorporated into the 7 lease executed on whatever date the tenant 8 signs it"? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. Had you ever seen that document prior to me 11 reading it to you? 12 A. I seen it thousands of times. 13 Q. Okay. And you know that this addendum is 14 incorporated into the lease that a tenant must sign at 15 a THC property, correct? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Okay. Now, insofar as house rules go, were 18 tenants in 2008 also required to execute a document 19 entitled "Tenderloin House Rules"? 20 A. Correct. 21 Q. Did you know that these house rules contained 22 a provision that state: 23 "Absolutely no use or possession of illegal 24 drugs in the building or premises"? 25 A. Yes. 23 1 Q. Did you know also that the house rules in 2008 2 required all common areas are considered shared space 3 and you are required to maintain respect for private 4 and community property as well as persons in joined 5 area, illegal and abusive language and/or behavior not 6 be tolerated"? 7 Did you know that? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. Now, that we have established that 10 there is a policy about preventing illegal drug use at 11 the hotels, isn't it true also that a tenant could be 12 evicted for violating those drug policies I just read 13 you? 14 A. Correct. 15 Q. And if a tenant is found to be smoking crystal 16 meth, for example, on the premises of the hotel, that 17 will be grounds for termination; wouldn't it? 18 MR. ELLIS: Object. Can we have the question 19 read back. 20 (Whereupon, the record was read back by the 21 Court Reporter.) 22 MR. ELLIS: I am just not sure if I heard 23 tenant and termination as opposed to tenant and 24 eviction. 25 MR.. WEISS: Oh. 24 1 MR. ELLIS: Okay. Either you can repeat it or 2 you can have it read back. 3 MR. WEISS: She can read it back. 4 (Whereupon, the record was read back by the 5 Court Reporter.) 6 MR. ELLIS: Q. Do you mean termination of the 7 lease or termination? 8 MR.. WEISS: Tenancy. 9 THE WITNESS: Yes. 10 MR. WEISS: Q. Now, what steps in 2008 did 11 the THC take when it learned that an employee -- I'm 12 sorry -- when it learned that a tenant was viewed 13 smoking crystal meth on the premises? What steps would 14 it take? 15 A. If we gained knowledge of a tenant smoking 16 crystal meth in the hotel, itself, we would start a 17 nuisance eviction process against that tenant. 18 Q. Okay. Now, the general manager of the 19 properties -- the general manager of any property in 20 2008, would that person have been given any training to 21 recognize signs of illegal drug use on the premises? 22 A. No. 23 Q. No? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Were general managers in 2008 required to know 25 1 what kind of characteristics a person would exhibit 2 under the influence of any particular drug such as 3 crystal meth? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Do management employees or did management 6 employees as far as you know in 2008 and years before 7 have to take courses on harm reduction training? 8 A. Not in our property management department. 9 Q. Do you know whether any management employees, 10 general managers, or anyone -- well, strike that. 11 Do you know whether any management level of 12 employees from assistant manager to manager to lead 13 property supervisor were required to take courses on 14 harm reduction training? 15 A. Not on our Property Management Department. 16 Q. What department, if any, were employees 17 required to take such training? 18 A. That would be more in the Support Service 19 Department. 20 Q. What does Support Services do? 21 A. They provide case management support to 22 tenants. 23 Q. Okay. Aside from having a tenant sign the 24 lease addendum prohibiting illegal drug use on the 25 premises, is that policy communicated in any other way 26 1 in the hotels to the tenants? 2 A. Yeah, the house rules are displayed on the 3 front desk area. 4 Q. Okay. Now, also, I showed you a document that 5 Colleen Carrigan signed where employees aren't supposed 6 to use illegal drugs. How is that -- strike that. 7 Is anything done to reinforce that among the 8 employees of the THC that they cannot use illegal 9 drugs? 10 MR. ELLIS: It's vague and ambiguous. 11 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 12 THE WITNESS: Our HR Department, which is our 13 Human Resources, do ongoing education and training 14 around that issue. 15 MR. WEISS: Q. Okay. In 2008, if you knew an 16 employee of the hotel, regardless of that employee's 17 level was using crystal meth, would that be grounds for 18 termination of employment? 19 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous 20 and incomplete hypothetical. 21 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 22 THE WITNESS: I would direct them to the Human 23 Resource Department to speak about that issue. 24 MR. WEISS: Q. Okay. But looking at that 25 Exhibit A, it does mention I think that an employee 27 1 could be terminated for illegal drug use; doesn't it? 2 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Misstates the 3 evidence. What? Do you want him to read the document? 4 I'm confused by the last question. 5 MR. WEISS: Okay. Yeah, let's mark this as 6 Exhibit B, and would you please hand this to the 7 witness afterwards. 8 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit B was marked 9 for identification.) 10 MR. WEISS: Let me know when you are ready. 11 THE WITNESS: Yes. 12 MR. WEISS: Okay. Now, I'll represent to you 13 that this is a document signed by Chanel Samuel in 14 March of 2008. 15 Q. Would you know Chanel Samuel's signature if 16 you saw it? 17 A. No, I would not. 18 Q. I'll represent to you further that this 19 document was received by us in the process of the 20 lawsuit from the THC. Now, I'll also represent to you 21 it's the exact wording of Exhibit A. By looking at 22 this, I can ask some more questions. Fourth paragraph 23 says: 24 "Any staff person who violates any of the 25 above stated rules is subject to 28 1 disciplinary action up to and including 2 termination." 3 And that was true for employees of THC in 4 2008; wasn't it? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. So, if it was discovered that an employee was 7 using crystal meth on the job, that person could be 8 terminated, correct? 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 10 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 11 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 12 THE WITNESS: Once again, if we became aware 13 of an issue with the employee, we would refer them to 14 the Human Resources Department. 15 MR. WEISS: Q. And what would be the purpose 16 of that? 17 A. As per our policy states, we will be 18 referring them to treatment and HR will become -- come 19 up with any disciplinary action including termination. 20 Q. So, in fact the fifth paragraph says: 21 "Tenderloin Housing Clinic will encourage and 22 reasonably accommodate employees with 23 chemical dependencies, drug or alcohol, to 24 seek treatment or rehabilitation." 25 Is that what you are referring to? 29 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. So the first line would be the first reaction 3 might be if it was discovered employees used crystal 4 meth on the job to try to get the person some help? 5 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Misstates the 6 evidence, vague and ambiguous, incomplete hypothetical. 7 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 8 THE WITNESS: Would you repeat that again? 9 MR. WEISS: Yes, so, what I get from your 10 testimony -- I'm just asking you a new question. 11 Q. Is it true that the first thing that THC might 12 do if it discovered an employee was using crystal meth, 13 for example, on the job is to get that person some kind 14 of help? 15 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Asked and answered, 16 incomplete hypothetical, misstates the evidence, vague 17 and ambiguous. 18 MR. WEISS: Overruled. 19 You can answer. 20 THE WITNESS: Can I? 21 MR. ELLIS: It's not overruled. The objection 22 is sustained. He already answered it. The first thing 23 he would do is refer it to HR. 24 MR. WEISS: Q. Okay. Is that what HR would 25 do -- first thing HR tries to do? 30 1 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation 2 and same objections as already stated.. 3 MR. WEISS: Okay. You can answer. 4 THE WITNESS: Once again, the conversation 5 between that employee and the Human Resources 6 Department. 7 MR. WEISS: Q. I mean, you know that that's 8 what the process is, don't you? 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection. What do you mean? 10 MR. WEISS: Q. The process that it states 11 right here in paragraph five of Exhibit B -- are you 12 aware that was the policy of the THC in 2008? 13 MR. ELLIS: Objection. 14 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 15 MR. ELLIS: The problem that I have with it is 16 the document states: "It will" -- it speaks for itself. 17 "It will encourage and reasonably accommodate 18 employees with chemical dependencies to seek 19 treatment or rehabilitation." 20 A second paragraph discusses substance abuse 21 while on the job, whether or not somebody is 22 encouraged to seek treatment, which is terminated, 23 whether they're on the job or off the job. The 24 document is to cover all ranges of that hypothetical. 25 That's what I'm saying the document says, one thing, 31 1 Mr. Holland's use of the document is to refer the 2 person to HR. And you want to get in all the different 3 situations which HR will deal with someone if that's 4 not Mr. Holland's scope of his job, so I am confused by 5 your questioning, and I'm not trying to coach him. I'm 6 saying the document says one thing, and I think you are 7 asking how the HR interprets that document. 8 MR. WEISS: No, I'm asking him his knowledge 9 of the policy. That's it. 10 MR. ELLIS: You want him to read this out loud 11 to the record? 12 MR. WEISS: No. I'm asking his knowledge. I 13 will ask the question, not what you wanted him to do. 14 Q. So, this first sentence of paragraph five in 15 Exhibit B, did you know that was the policy of THC in 16 2008 -- yes or no? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. All right. And in fact everything in 19 Exhibit B, you were aware of that in 2008; weren't you? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And you just didn't recall whether you ever 22 signed such a document? 23 A. I can't remember. It was so long ago and I 24 don't recollect if I remember everything that I 25 signed. 32 1 Q. All right. I think -- what employees do you 2 supervise in your job? 3 A. I supervise from property supervisors on 4 down, everybody in the Property Management Department. 5 Q. And what kind of people -- well, strike 6 that -- what kind of people. 7 Property Management Department would encompass 8 what job titles? 9 A. Property supervisors, general managers, 10 assistant managers, desk clerks, janitors, maintenance 11 workers. 12 MR. ELLIS: Slow down, so she can catch it. 13 MR. WEISS: Q. All right. And as director of 14 property management in 2008, would you want a janitor 15 to be working under the influence of crystal meth? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Why is that? 18 A. Why is that? I would just be stating my 19 opinion, but it would affect their work performance, I 20 would assume. 21 Q. Okay. Do you have any knowledge about -- 22 well, strike that. 23 Did you know that in the Hartland Hotel in 24 2008, that on every resident floor there is a 25 receptacle to collect syringes? 33 1 A. Yes, I do. 2 Q. Okay. And do you know what these syringes are 3 used for? 4 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 5 MR. WEISS: I said: Did he know? 6 THE WITNESS: No, I do not know. 7 MR. WEISS: Q. Do you know why receptacles 8 for syringes were on each floor of the residence for 9 the Hartland Hotel in 2008? 10 A. We have some people like myself that have to 11 use insulin, so I have one of those receptacles in my 12 office. 13 Q. Is that why the receptacles are on every floor 14 of the Hartland Hotel in 2008 for people with diabetes? 15 MR. ELLIS: Objection. It calls for 16 speculation. 17 MR. WEISS: I'm asking if you know. 18 You don't have to guess. Just what you know. 19 THE WITNESS: That's what you are asking me to 20 do is to guess. I know we have the receptacles for 21 people to use every floor. 22 MR. WEISS: Q. You just don't know why, is 23 that your testimony? 24 A. I don't know why. I'm just hoping if they 25 use syringes, they put it in there and this way our 34 1 janitors won't get stuck when they get the trash. 2 That was my reason for having those put there. 3 Q. Are you the ones that ordered them there? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Did you have any written orders regarding the 6 placement of those receptacles for syringes? 7 A. It was the safety issue. 8 Q. Why was that, because people were leaving 9 syringes just laying on the floor? 10 A. No. 11 Q. What was the safety issue then? 12 A. Because, you know, our guys pull trash and we 13 don't want them getting stuck with any objects. 14 Q. I actually handled a case like that once. 15 But, when did you create this policy of 16 putting the syringes in receptacles in the Hartland 17 Hotel? 18 A. I believe -- I don't know the exact date, but 19 we had them put there. They have been there like for 20 three years, I believe.. 21 Q. And that was your idea? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And this idea did not come up in the context 24 of illegal drug use? 25 A. No. 35 1 Q. What prompted you to come up with this policy? 2 A. I guess we were having a class from OSHA 3 that was talking about safety issues and guys pulling 4 trash, back braces, you know, broken glass, needles in 5 trash. So, we had those receptacles put there hoping 6 if anyone has use of a syringe, they would put them in 7 those receptacles. 8 Q. Those receptacles get filled up on a weekly 9 basis? 10 A. No. 11 Q. Do you know how many syringes are put in any 12 given week? 13 A. I do not know that. 14 Q. Do you know where these receptacles are 15 disposed of? 16 A. Our maintenance managers go by and check 17 them. 18 Q. Is there any writing that you created about 19 the placement of these receptacles? 20 A. No, there's not. 21 Q. Was there an invoice to whatever company 22 supplied the receptacles? 23 A. No. We got those for free. 24 Q. Where do you get them from? 25 A. I can't remember exactly where we got them 36 1 from, but it's a different organization that you can 2 call up and they'll give them to you. 3 Q. Did you ever have any or conduct any training 4 of employees wherein it was mentioned employees should 5 not use illegal drugs? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Now, I know you mentioned you don't go into 8 people's individual units, but if a general manager 9 learns that a tenant is smoking crystal meth in her 10 room, what should the general manager do? 11 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 12 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 13 You can answer. 14 THE WITNESS: Okay. If they have that 15 knowledge, hopefully if someone is using crystal meth 16 or whatever in their unit will write them a letter 17 saying that we became aware that you are allegedly 18 using crystal meth in your unit. 19 MR. WEISS: Okay. 20 THE WITNESS: And we ask them to stop and it's 21 a clear violation of your lease. 22 MR. WEISS: Q. But how about offering to 23 help? 24 A. We do. We turn that information over to the 25 Service Department. 37 1 Q. And the same hypothetical, assume that in 2008 2 a tenant is smoking crystal meth in her unit. The 3 general manager learns of that. Under any 4 circumstances should the general manager just ignore 5 it? 6 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 7 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 8 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 9 THE WITNESS: If they become aware of any 10 issue with the tenant, we write them a correspondent 11 letter stating to the fact we became aware that you 12 were allegedly using an illegal substance in your unit. 13 MR. WEISS: Q. But my question is: Under any 14 circumstances should the manager just do nothing? 15 A. No, we don't do just nothing. We respond in 16 writing to every issue that we become aware of. 17 Q. Okay. So, would you say that the general 18 manager would not be doing his job if he had notice 19 that an employee -- I'm sorry -- would it be fair to 20 say that a general manager not doing his job if he 21 learned that a tenant was smoking crystal meth in a 22 room and just did nothing? 23 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 24 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 25 You can answer. 38 1 THE WITNESS: No. 2 MR. WEISS: Q.. So, no, that general manager 3 would not be doing his job if he did nothing, correct? 4 A. It would not be because the general manager 5 wouldn't have any hard evidence. It would just be 6 hearsay because he didn't actually see the person 7 doing it in their room. 8 Q. So is a type of knowledge required before any 9 action is taken that the general manager would have to 10 actually witness the tenant doing drugs before taking 11 any sort of action? 12 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 13 hypothetical.. 14 THE WITNESS: All our information would say 15 it's been allegedly said you are using your room to 16 smoke illegal drugs. If you are doing this, we are 17 asking you to stop because your housing is in jeopardy 18 and with this information, we are going to be passing 19 it on to Support Service and do outreach to you to help 20 you with this issue. 21 MR. WEISS: Let's suppose -- assume that the 22 general manager is outside a person's unit with another 23 employee of the THC. He says: What is that smell 24 coming from the room? It's really bad. And the 25 employee that's with him says someone is smoking crystal 39 1 meth in there. Should the manager just do nothing at 2 that point? 3 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 4 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 5 THE WITNESS: No, that would be just another 6 person's opinion that this what that smell is. 7 MR. WEISS: Q. Just an investigation, let it 8 go, is that what you are saying you would do? 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 10 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 11 THE WITNESS: We can't just go and enter 12 someone's room because of an alleged smell. 13 MR. WEISS: No, but should the manager in that 14 case at least write a letter, it was reported to us that 15 you were allegedly -- that crystal meth was allegedly 16 smoked in your unit, that type of letter? 17 MR. ELLIS: Incomplete hypothetical, vague and 18 ambiguous. 19 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 20 THE WITNESS: We will write a letter that it 21 was some type of odor coming from your unit. 22 MR. WEISS: How about that, it was reported to 23 be crystal meth? 24 MR. ELLIS: It's an incomplete hypothetical, 25 vague and ambiguous. 40 1 THE WITNESS: We wouldn't write a letter like 2 that. It would be a person's opinion. 3 MR. WEISS: Q. So what kind of evidence would 4 you require to write a letter about a tenant using 5 crystal meth in their room? 6 A. It would require a letter that we have more 7 than one report from tenants around the unit reporting 8 something illegal can be taking place in that unit. 9 Q. You mentioned different employees that you 10 supervise including desk clerks. In 2008, did you ever 11 make it a practice to just talk to desk clerks, see 12 what's going on in the hotels? 13 A. I -- in my -- in my role as director of 14 property management, I go to numerous buildings on a 15 daily basis and I sit at the front desk with the front 16 line and employees and speak with them. 17 Q. All right. And do you ever ask them if they 18 learn of any drug use on the premises? 19 A. I don't state it that way. I asked them: 20 Are there any issues that you are aware of in the 21 building? 22 Q. You don't use the word "drugs"? 23 A. No, any issue -- could be issues that we're 24 having at the property. 25 Q. How would the desk clerk know to tell you 41 1 about drugs if you just say issues? 2 A. Because I say it deals with all issues, any 3 illegal issues, tenant issues, staff issues. Issues 4 are issues. 5 Q. Okay. Do you ever -- so included in your 6 question of: Are there any issues going on, would that 7 include whether employees were under the influence of 8 drugs on the job? 9 A. I wouldn't ask them that question. 10 Q. You would just -- what I'm saying is that 11 included in the use of issues at the hotel, you 12 mentioned tenants doing stuff. What about employees 13 doing something illegal? 14 A. I wouldn't ask them that because we abide by 15 our union contract. If I get anything specific about 16 particular employees, I have to give them the 17 opportunity to have someone represent them on issues 18 like that. 19 Q. I'm sure that might be true. I'm just asking 20 if does the desk clerk, for example, understand when 21 you say are there any issues, that it would include the 22 subject of employee drug use? 23 A. It's up to them to tell me that information 24 if I ask them a question about issues in the building. 25 Q. Well, when you use the term "issues" in the 42 1 building, does that include employees using drugs? 2 A. It depends on what information that they give 3 me. I ask them if there are any issues in the 4 building that I should be aware of. 5 Q. When you ask them that, do you mean to include 6 any employee drug use as well as other issues? 7 A. Whatever information they feel like they 8 would want to share with me. 9 Q. I'm asking you what you think when you tell 10 them about issues -- ask them about issues, do you also 11 intend in asking them issues to find out if employees 12 are using drugs? 13 A. I'm asking them to give me information that 14 they want to share with me. I'm willing to listen to 15 whatever they have to tell me. I don't have any 16 specifics what I'm looking for. Whatever information 17 they share with me. 18 Q. When you ask -- I'll ask this one more time -- 19 frame of mind. When you ask these employees if there 20 are any issues, do you mean to include in that question 21 about issues, the subject of employee drug use -- yes or 22 no? 23 A. Whatever information they're willing to give 24 me. 25 Q. You can't answer that question yes or no, what 43 1 you intend to mean by issues? 2 A. No. 3 MR. ELLIS: I'm objecting at this point. I'm 4 not sure what you are asking. Vague and ambiguous. 5 MR. WEISS: All right. 6 MR. ELLIS: Asked and answered. 7 MR. WEISS: I guess I'll keep asking it again 8 and again. 9 Q. This is -- when you ask employees when you 10 visit the premises of a hotel what issues they are aware 11 of, do you, James Holland, intend by asking that 12 question to also cover the subject of employee drug 13 use -- yes or no? 14 A. Whatever information they're willing to share 15 with me that's at the building, I'm willing to listen. 16 I don't ask for any specifics. I sit down and ask 17 them any issues at the building, waiting for them to 18 answer. 19 MR. ELLIS: Some questions aren't answered 20 with yes or no. Sometimes answers are maybe. Sometimes 21 answers are it depends. 22 MR. WEISS: I object to your coaching the 23 witness. 24 MR. ELLIS: I'm not coaching him. I'm 25 explaining to you because you're going to keep asking 44 1 the question over and over again. I'm telling you this 2 isn't a yes or no answer. 3 MR. WEISS: Well, here is the thing. I'm not 4 asking what the employees might be willing to share. 5 I'm just asking what's in your mind when you ask the 6 question. And is it in your mind to also find out about 7 possible employee drug use? That's what I'm saying -- 8 yes or no? I'm not asking what someone is willing to 9 tell you. They might be willing to spill their guts. 10 I don't know, but what you do you intend by asking that, 11 what's in your mind? 12 MR. ELLIS: Can I try to ask it a different 13 way? 14 MR. WEISS: No. You can try and rehabilitate 15 him later if you want. 16 Q. So, just before I'm off that, do you have in 17 your own mind, James Holland, when you asked that, to 18 also cover the subject of employee drug use? Not what 19 someone is trying to tell you, but do you want to hear 20 if something is going on? 21 A. I want to hear what's going on at the 22 building, and the first thought in my mind is not 23 staff is doing something wrong. I'm not -- I'm not 24 asking for that, because I'm hoping that it's not 25 happening.. 45 1 Q. All right. Are you a supervisor of Colleen 2 Carrigan? 3 A. Yes, I am. 4 Q. Are you aware whether she ever took any 5 courses on harm reduction? 6 A. Yes, I am. 7 Q. What is your knowledge of that? 8 A. She came to our department from the Support 9 Service Department, so it was her role to be very 10 familiar with the harm reduction. 11 Q. And what is harm reduction at the THC, what 12 does that mean? 13 A. Basically it means to meet the tenant where 14 they're at. 15 Q. What does that mean? 16 A. If the tenant is on drugs, you meet them 17 where they're at. At that level in their life if 18 they're a drug addict, that's where they're at and 19 you, without passing any judgment, you reach out and 20 try to help them -- housing. 21 Q. Okay. What policies -- never mind. We 22 already asked about that with the employees. 23 The Hartland Hotel in May of 2008, how would 24 one get into the basement? 25 A. Through the basement door. 46 1 Q. Is that door locked? 2 A. It is now. 3 Q. When was it locked? When did you start 4 locking it? 5 A. Right after this incident happened. 6 Q.. Referring to Mydra McGarr's -- 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. -- injuries. 9 Okay. When did you first learn of this 10 incident, being the alleged attack by Chanel Samuel? 11 A. I got a phone call when I was in a meeting 12 the morning it happened. 13 Q. Who called you? 14 A. I don't remember at that time. 15 Q. What information did you receive? 16 A. That a staff had a fight. 17 Q. That's it? 18 A. Yeah, because... 19 Q. Were any names mentioned? 20 A. They said Chanel. 21 Q. Anyone else? 22 A. I can't remember if they said Mydra by name. 23 I believe they used her last name. 24 Q. McGarr? 25 A. Yeah. 47 1 Q. And they said staff was in a fight -- 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. -- you say? 4 And did you inquire further of what do you 5 mean, what happened? 6 A. No. I told them I was on my way. 7 Q. Okay. And when do you think you got to the 8 Hartland Hotel on May 30? 9 A. I don't know. First, Colleen was in a 10 meeting with me and she got the phone call and then 11 the phone call, as I was getting ready to tell them 12 let's go and she -- we walked up there. I don't know. 13 It took us like ten minutes to get there. 14 Q. Okay. And so you walked up there with 15 Colleen? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And when you got there, what did you do? 18 A. We couldn't do anything. Mydra is in the 19 stretcher and Chanel was in the police car. 20 Q. Okay. So when you got there, you noticed 21 Mydra in a stretcher? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. Was she being carried out of the hotel? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Was she bloody? 48 1 A. She was. 2 Q. Did you say anything to her? 3 A. I just told her I'm sorry that this happened 4 to you. 5 Q. Anything else? 6 A. That's it. 7 Q. Did she say anything to you? 8 A. No. She was in pain. 9 Q. And you saw Chanel in the police car, you say? 10 A. Uh-huh. 11 Q. Yes? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And any conversation with her? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Any conversation with any police officers at 16 the scene? 17 A. Not by me personally. 18 Q.. Did you witness any conversations with police 19 officers at the scene? 20 A. I did not. 21 Q. You didn't see the police talking to anyone 22 when you walked there? 23 A. They were down talking to each other going to 24 the basement. 25 Q. Did you go to the basement? 49 1 A. I did not. 2 Q. Why is that? 3 A. Because it was an active crime scene. 4 Q. Were any other THC employees in the basement 5 when you arrived? 6 A. I did not go to the basement. 7 Q. Do you know whether any THC employees were in 8 the basement when you arrived? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Did Colleen go into the basement when you 11 arrived? 12 A. No. Me and her were together. 13 Q. Do you know who Lori McElroy is? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Did she ever go into the basement after the 16 attack? 17 A. I am not really sure if she did. 18 Q. Did you ever ask her? 19 A. No. 20 Q. How about Jesus Lopez, do you know him? 21 A. Yes, I do. 22 Q. And when you got to the crime scene or the 23 hotel -- I'm sorry -- do you know if Mr. Lopez had gone 24 down to the basement? 25 A. I do not know that. 50 1 Q. Did you ever go down to the basement to look 2 around after the incident happened? 3 A. Yes, I did. 4 Q. When was that, do you think? 5 A. It was a couple of weeks after. 6 Q. What did you see when you went down there? 7 A. Just tools, lockers, equipment. 8 Q. How about blood? 9 A. No. 10 Q. At any time after the incident occurred, did 11 you ever see blood in the basement? 12 A. No, because I never went to the basement. 13 Q. I'm saying any time after the incident. We 14 know you went there at least once. At any time after, 15 did you ever see blood there? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Okay. So you got to the hotel. What did you 18 do there? 19 A. It was basically trying to calm the tenants 20 that were -- you know, it was a pretty emotional 21 scene, so my role was just to try to support people 22 that needed support -- other staff that was there. 23 Q. What was the scene that you encountered at the 24 hotel when you got there? 25 A. It was just the police department was 51 1 everywhere. You know, it was yellow tape being put 2 up. 3 Q. Anything else? 4 A.. That's it. It was just... 5 Q. How many tenants do you think were in the 6 lobby when you got there? 7 A. It was a few. I didn't take count. 8 Q. And were they visibly upset to you? 9 A. Yeah. 10 Q. What kind of things were they expressing that 11 made you think they were upset? 12 A. It was just my opinion they were going back 13 on facial expressions. 14 Q. Did you have conversations with anyone at the 15 hotel about what happened? 16 A. At that time, I did not. I was speaking with 17 Colleen about what we were going to do. 18 Q. And what were you going to do? 19 A. Just what we were going to do, make sure 20 staff is all right. If anybody needed to go home, 21 they need to speak with anyone, you know, get on the 22 phone, call HR to come up and offer support and call 23 Support Services to come over and help the tenants 24 out. 25 Q. Did Support Services come over? 52 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And did they help out any tenants? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Did anyone help out any of the employees that 5 were there at the time the incident occurred? 6 A. They did. 7 Q. And who did that? 8 A. I believe -- I can't remember. I think Del, 9 our HR person at the time and Cathy Claggett, they 10 came up and spoke with staff and -- 11 Q. Cathy, how does she spell the last name? 12 A. I believe her last name is spelled 13 C-l-a-g-g-e-t-t. 14 Q. What employees were present at the time you 15 arrived at the time of the incident? 16 A. I can't remember who all was there, but I'm 17 sure the ones that were on duty at the time were 18 there. 19 Q. How about James Kang, was he there? 20 A. I believe he was. 21 Q. You know him, right? 22 A. Yes, he's an employee there. 23 Q. Isn't he a desk clerk? 24 A. I believe he is. 25 Q. Isn't he the desk clerk who broke up the 53 1 attack -- the alleged attack? Sorry. 2 A. I believe so. 3 Q. Did you ever see any incident reports that 4 Mr. Kang wrote about this incident? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. When do you think you saw that? 7 A. Probably about an hour after the incident, I 8 believe. 9 Q. Okay. And how about Jesus Lopez, was he 10 there at the time of the incident? 11 MR. ELLIS: At the time of the incident? 12 MR. WEISS: That's my question. 13 MR. ELLIS: Objection. It calls for 14 speculation.. 15 THE WITNESS: I don't remember. 16 MR. WEISS: Q. Well, do you know if -- sorry. 17 Do you know if Mr. Lopez was somewhere else at 18 the time of the incident? 19 A. I can't remember because it was a lot going 20 on that day. I didn't -- my focus was not seeing who 21 was actually there. 22 Q. I'm just asking what you remember. Do you 23 know who Emanuel White is? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Was he present when you got to the hotel? 54 1 A. I don't remember. 2 Q. Okay. Lori McElroy was there? 3 A. I believe she was there. 4 Q. The day of the incident, did you have any 5 discussions with Mr. Lopez about what happened? 6 A. Not me personally. My knowledge of the 7 incident is second hand is coming from the property 8 supervisor for that location. I spoke with all the 9 people that were there that day. 10 Q. So when you were there, you just never 11 attempted to ask Mr. Lopez what happened? 12 A. As I said, it wasn't my focus at that time to 13 ask him specifics on what happened. I was there to 14 try to make sure that the staff is okay, and that the 15 tenants needed anything at that time. 16 Q. At any time after the incident did you ever 17 speak to Mr. Lopez about it? 18 A. I had a -- Colleen headed up the 19 investigation to speak with all the employees at the 20 apartment. 21 MR. ELLIS: Just answer the question. 22 MR. WEISS: Q. Is the answer no or yes? 23 A. I never spoke with anyone. 24 Q.. So you never -- so we can get this clear on 25 the record, is it true that after the incident occurred, 55 1 you never spoke to Mr. Lopez about it; is that true? 2 A. True. 3 Q. Is it also true you never spoke to Lori 4 McElroy about the incident after it happened? 5 A. True. 6 Q. Is it also true that you never spoke to 7 Mr. Kang about the incident after it happened? 8 A. True. 9 Q. And was it clear -- so in other words, you 10 were going to have Colleen conduct the investigation? 11 A. Yes, I was. 12 Q. Did you ask her to do that? 13 A. Yes, I did. 14 Q. And did you go over any specific things you 15 wanted her to do conducting the investigation? 16 A. I asked her if she could find out exactly why 17 this occurred and how. 18 Q. Now, when did you ask Colleen to do that? 19 A. Same day the incident happened. 20 Q. And to your knowledge, did she go out and do 21 what you requested? 22 A. She did. 23 Q. And what did she do to accomplish your 24 investigation you asked her to do? 25 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 56 1 MR. WEISS: Q. Only what you know, what did 2 she do? 3 A. She spoke to all the staff members of the 4 Hartland Hotel. 5 Q. Of the what? 6 A. Hartland Hotel. 7 Q. So she spoke to Mr. Lopez? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Did she speak to Lori McElroy? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Did she speak to James Kang? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did she ever speak to either Chanel or Mydra 14 about the incident that you know of? 15 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 16 THE WITNESS: No, she did not. 17 MR. WEISS: Q. Do you know why? 18 A. They weren't available to us. 19 Q. Did she ever attempt to talk to either one 20 that you know of? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Did Miss Carrigan ever give you a written 23 report with the results of the investigation? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And when do you think you received that? 57 1 A. I can't remember. 2 Q. Like a week later? Two weeks? Three weeks? 3 A month? 4 A. I can't remember. 5 Q. But sometime after you received it? 6 A. Correct. 7 Q. Where is that written report kept? 8 A. I believe that would be in the employee's 9 files. 10 Q. Which employees? 11 A. The two involved. It would be both. 12 Q. So this report that Colleen did for her 13 investigation would be both in Mydra McGarr's file as 14 well as Chanel Samuel's file? 15 A. I believe it would be. 16 Q. You are talking about the employee files, 17 correct? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q.. Okay. What did Colleen conclude was the 20 reason why this incident happened? 21 A. We couldn't come up with any reasons why it 22 happened. 23 Q. Was the subject of Chanel Samuel's drug use 24 ever discussed? 25 A. No. 58 1 Q. And what did Colleen put in her report about 2 how the incident happened? 3 A. We never could find out why it happened or 4 how. 5 Q. Was that a conclusion that Colleen had in her 6 report? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. How long was this report? 9 A. I can't remember how long it was. 10 Q. More than one page? 11 A. I can't remember that. 12 Q. Do you know if Colleen reviewed the employee 13 file of either person in her investigation? 14 A. The first steps you take in any of our 15 investigations. 16 Q. Did Colleen do that? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. How do you know that? 19 A. Because that's our procedure. 20 Q. But I mean, did she tell you she filed the 21 procedure or she put in her report she looked at the 22 employees' files? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. What action was taken against Chanel Samuel, 25 if anything, after the investigation of the complaint 59 1 or the incident was completed? 2 A. Right after the incident happened -- at the 3 time she was a tenant for us at the Hartland Hotel -- 4 we immediately posted abandonment on her unit door.. 5 Q. How do you know that was done? 6 A. Because I instructed it to be done. 7 Q. Okay. And did you instruct it to be done the 8 same day as the incident occurred? 9 A. I can't remember, but I believe it happened 10 pretty quickly. 11 Q. Okay. And how do you know that your order was 12 carried out? 13 A. It was. 14 Q. How do you know? 15 A. Because I got a copy of a letter on the 16 weekly report that we have that has the date and time 17 for any tenant issues, for evictions, abandonments, 18 rental issues. 19 Q. Was there any discussion of giving Chanel a 20 three-day notice? 21 A. It was. 22 Q. What was concluded about that? 23 A. She hadn't paid rent already, so it would 24 have been a faster way to go with the abandonment 25 versus the unlawful detainer. 60 1 Q. Okay. I was actually going to ask you about 2 that. How is it Chanel never had to pay rent at the 3 hotel? 4 A. Excuse me? 5 Q. We learned from Mr. Lopez and documents given 6 to us by the THC in the lawsuit that Chanel Samuel 7 never, ever paid rent for living at the Hartland Hotel. 8 I wondered how that could occur. 9 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 10 THE WITNESS: We assume that she was going to 11 pay her rent that day because it was payday and she 12 came in and picked up her check early. 13 MR. WEISS: Q. Are you talking about May 30? 14 A.. Yes. 15 Q. Did you know Chanel moved in in March? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. So how is it she can move in and never pay 18 rent since March and never, no one ever say anything 19 about it? 20 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Calls for speculation. 21 THE WITNESS: I'm sure she was spoken to about 22 that, and she made some arrangements with our Housing 23 Department. 24 MR. WEISS: Q. How do you know that? 25 A. Because it's one of our procedures. 61 1 Q. Okay. 2 MR. WEISS: It's now 12:15. I want to take a 3 lunch break and give the reporter a break, so we are 4 going to come back at 1:15 and finish your deposition. 5 Okay. 6 (Whereupon, a break was taken from 7 12:12 p.m. to 1:15 p.m.) 8 MR. WEISS: Q. Mr. Holland, in following up 9 on that, how do you know that question? Do you know if 10 in fact anyone followed up with Chanel about her 11 nonpayment of rent? 12 A. I don't remember. 13 Q. Do you know what the rent rolls are? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. What are the rent rolls? 16 A. Basic transaction of what the actual rent is 17 and what the tenant paid towards their rent. 18 Q. Does every general manager have access to the 19 rent rolls? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do the rent rolls show who is paying rent and 22 who is not paying rent? 23 A. No. 24 Q. If Mr. Lopez looked at the rent rolls and 25 never saw Chanel on there as paying rent, what would 62 1 the procedure have been for him to do? 2 A. He would have to follow up with a three-day 3 notice. 4 Q. Does the THC have a policy about -- let me ask 5 a foundational question first. I may have asked this, 6 but isn't it true that some tenants of the THC are also 7 employees of the THC? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Does the THC have any policy about tenants 10 working in the same building in which they live? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Okay. So as far as the THC is concerned, it's 13 all right for a tenant to work in the same building in 14 which they live? 15 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 16 hypothetical, asked and answered. 17 THE WITNESS: Well, we have no set policy 18 around that issue. 19 MR. WEISS: Q. In assigning an employee who 20 is also a tenant to work, is one of the factors 21 considered in where to assign a place of work where the 22 tenant lives? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And what considerations are given to that? 25 A. We try not to schedule an employee at a 63 1 location where they live. 2 Q. Why is that? 3 A. Because it's no -- basically we just try not 4 to do that. 5 Q. No particular reason? 6 A. You know, just don't want anyone to be 7 actually working where they live. 8 Q. I got that. I just wonder if there is any 9 particular reason for it is all. 10 A. Just opinions that we have. 11 Q. Opinions? 12 A. Opinions that we have. 13 Q. What opinions are those? 14 A. Just basically you want people to actually be 15 working and not spending time in their room when 16 they're desk clerks or janitors. 17 Q. Have you ever seen a document entitled "Code 18 of Professional Conduct/Staff Rules"? 19 A. I have. 20 Q. And how is it that you know about such a 21 document? 22 A. I probably have read it. 23 Q. Unfortunately our copier is broken, but I was 24 looking at a document entitled: "Code of Professional 25 Conduct/Staff Rules" and actually Colleen Carrigan 64 1 signed this in March of '05. 2 It says in one provision: 3 "Staff may not be in the hotel premises 4 unless they're scheduled to work." 5 So, how do you reconcile that if the tenant 6 lives at the same place where they work? 7 A. Could you explain that? 8 Q. Well, I'm just reading this. You mean my 9 question or what I just read? 10 A. The question that you asked me. 11 Q. Okay. You should be bringing it up if you 12 don't get the question. That's good. 13 Well, the Code of Professional Conduct/Staff 14 Rules say in pertinent part, staff may not be on the 15 hotel premises unless they're scheduled to work. So, 16 if someone is a tenant and works at the same place, then 17 they're obviously always on the premises. How does the 18 THC deal with that kind of conflict? 19 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous 20 and incomplete hypothetical. 21 THE WITNESS: I believe that's the reason why 22 we try not to schedule a person where they live to work 23 at that location. 24 MR. WEISS: Q. Did you notice Chanel 25 Samuel -- have you heard that Chanel Samuel was working 65 1 at the Hartland Hotel as well as living there? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. How did you find that out? 4 A. Basically she is a floating janitor, so that 5 she is going to work at all the locations. 6 Q. Do you know whether or not she served as a 7 relief desk clerk at the Hartland Hotel while she lived 8 there? 9 A. I would not know that. 10 Q. Why would you not know that? 11 A. I wouldn't know it unless someone actually 12 told me. 13 Q. You are not aware of -- in other words, well, 14 are you aware on a day-to-day basis where staff members 15 are working? 16 A. No. 17 MR. WEISS: Let's mark this as our next in 18 order C and hand that to the witness after. 19 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit C was marked 20 for identification.) 21 MR. WEISS: Take a look at it for a second. 22 I'll represent that I received this document from the 23 THC in the course of this lawsuit. 24 MR. ELLIS: Let us know when you are ready to 25 talk about it. 66 1 THE WITNESS: Yes, I'm ready. 2 MR. WEISS: Q. Okay. So, this document I 3 handed you, Exhibit C, you have seen this document 4 before? 5 A. I can't recall that I have. 6 Q. Do you think you ever signed one of these? 7 A. It's been so long ago, I'm not really sure. 8 Q. Well, to your knowledge, has there ever been a 9 time when employees of the THC would not have to sign 10 such a document? 11 A. I believe this is a part of the regular 12 hiring package so we have to sign it. 13 Q. Do the employees of the THC also get a copy of 14 the Tenderloin Housing Clinic Employee Handbook? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. And Exhibit C, are employees required to sign 17 an acknowledgment that they have received and read this 18 document? 19 A. I believe so. 20 Q. Does Colleen Carrigan schedule floating 21 janitors? 22 A. She used to. 23 Q. In, say, the spring of 2008, was she 24 scheduling floating janitors? 25 A. Yes.. 67 1 Q. In Exhibit C, that's the Code of 2 Professional/Staff Rules that Colleen Carrigan, 3 herself, signed. And so do you know whether in fact 4 Miss Carrigan scheduled staff members to work on hotel 5 premises where they also lived? 6 A. I do not know. 7 Q. Do you ever do a performance review of 8 Miss Carrigan? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. In the performance review, have you ever 11 considered how she schedules employees for work? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Did you ever discuss with her whether in 2008 14 she scheduled workers to work in the same place where 15 they lived? 16 A. I do not remember going over that. 17 Q. If you had learned that Miss Carrigan was 18 scheduling employees to work at the same property in 19 which they lived, would you have told her not to? 20 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous, 21 incomplete hypothetical. 22 THE WITNESS: I would have asked her: Did 23 she -- was that her only solution to filling that shift 24 at that time? 25 MR. WEISS: Q. Okay. Is it permissible for 68 1 an employee to work behind the front desk without being 2 on the clock? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Do you have any knowledge whether Chanel 5 Samuel served as a front desk relief clerk on the 6 graveyard shift? 7 A. I have no knowledge of that. 8 Q. Okay. Is there any kind of document that 9 shows an employee's work schedule from week to week? 10 A. Just her time sheets. 11 Q. Right. But let's say that someone is a 12 floating janitor, how do they know from day-to-day 13 where they're going to work? 14 A. They would get the instructions from their 15 supervisor. 16 Q. And in March of 2008, would that have been 17 Colleen Carrigan? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And you know when we got the personnel file -- 20 or strike that. 21 We received the employment file of Chanel 22 Samuel during the course of this lawsuit but her time 23 cards for 2008 are completely missing. Have you heard 24 where they might be? 25 A. No, no. 69 1 Q. Shouldn't her time cards be in her personnel 2 file? 3 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 4 THE WITNESS: I -- that's not my department, 5 so I wouldn't know. 6 MR. WEISS: Q. Do you know where employee 7 time sheets are kept? 8 A. I do not know that. 9 Q. Okay. Did you ever see any videotapes of the 10 lobby the day of the event -- 11 A. No. 12 Q. -- the incident? 13 Have you ever seen any videotapes from 14 May 30 for any of the floors of the Hartland Hotel? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Were you subpoenaed to testify in court in the 17 criminal matter concerning this incident? 18 A. I was not. 19 Q. Did you go down to the Court House the day of 20 the preliminary examination? 21 A. I did. 22 Q. Why did you do that? 23 A. Because I was just subpoenaed in another 24 issue, so I was there and I just went and checked on 25 the staff and all. 70 1 Q. You received a subpoena? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. What? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Who gave the subpoena to you? 6 A. It was a totally different issue separate 7 from this one. 8 Q. Was it on the case of People of the State of 9 California versus Chanel Samuel? 10 A. No. 11 Q. You were subpoenaed for a completely different 12 case? 13 A. Yes, I was. 14 Q. What matter was that? 15 MR. ELLIS: Was it personal or business? 16 THE WITNESS: It was business. 17 MR. WEISS: Q.. Well, what case were you 18 subpoenaed? 19 A. What's his name? Carter. For the Carter. 20 Q. What was that case involving? 21 A. He -- I believe he failed to register, so I 22 was on call to -- his wife worked for us and was a 23 resident manager and he lived with her. So... 24 Q. What, did it have to do with a criminal 25 proceeding at the Hall of Justice -- is what I'm asking. 71 1 A. That's where it was. 2 Q. When you say failure to register, what do you 3 mean? 4 A. I had to go and -- I received a subpoena. I 5 had to go and wait in the hallway until they called 6 me. 7 Q. And when you were called, did you have to 8 testify? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What was the subject of your testimony? 11 A. Where he lived at that time. 12 Q. Oh. What, he failed to register with his 13 parole agent or something? 14 A. I assume he failed to register when he moved 15 out of our building. 16 Q. Well, when you say failure to register, with 17 his parole agent? 18 A. Whatever a sex offender has to do. 19 Q. He was classified as a sex offender? 20 A. I assume that. I didn't ask any questions. 21 Q. Okay. All right. I understand. And 22 coincidentally, it happened to be the same day as the 23 Chanel Samuel preliminary hearing? 24 A. Yes. Yes. 25 Q. Okay. And what employees of the Tenderloin 72 1 Housing Clinic did you see at the Chanel Samuel 2 preliminary hearing? 3 A. Colleen, I talked to her, and I can't 4 remember who all was there. 5 Q. Was there any discussion at the THC about 6 trying to blame Mydra McGarr for this assault -- this 7 alleged assault? 8 A. No. 9 Q. Was there any discussion about whether Mydra 10 McGarr had caused this attack on her? 11 A. No. 12 Q. Did anyone at THC give any instructions to 13 THC employees about what they should or should not 14 testify to at the preliminary hearing of Chanel Samuel? 15 A. No. 16 Q. Did you learn what any testimony was of any 17 THC employee from that preliminary hearing? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Do you even know who testified from the THC? 20 A. I do not know that. 21 Q. Before this incident where Mydra McGarr was 22 injured by Chanel Samuel, did you know Mydra? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And by virtue of the fact she was an employee? 25 A. Correct. 73 1 Q. Did you know her before she was an employee? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Did you ever visit her at the hospital? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Did you ever see Mydra McGarr at any time 6 after the incident? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. And where did you see her? 9 A. At the BART station. 10 Q. Which BART station was that? 11 A. Powell Street. 12 Q. Did you have any conversation with her? 13 A. Yes, I did. I was with my children. 14 MR. ELLIS: Just answer the questions. 15 MR. WEISS: Q. And what was your 16 conversation? 17 A. She initiated the conversation. She was 18 upset about people showing up at the preliminary 19 hearing. 20 Q. Did she say what upset her about that? 21 A. That our people were there, and she assumed 22 that they were there in support of Chanel. 23 Q. And what did you say in response? 24 A. I told her I don't want to really talk about 25 this issue because I have my kids here, and you are 74 1 not being very pleasant. 2 Q. Was she raising her voice? 3 A. She was. 4 Q. What else did she say? 5 A. I walked away because my first priority is my 6 children. 7 Q. Did you have any other discussion with her 8 other than that? 9 A. No. 10 Q.. Did you ever tell Mydra McGarr at any time 11 that people had to show up and testify in favor of 12 Chanel, they were to be disciplined in their 13 employment? 14 A. No. 15 Q. Was this incident ever reported to OSHA? 16 A. I don't remember. 17 Q. Well, what is the procedure that THC follows 18 if an employee sustains injuries on the job in terms of 19 reporting it to OSHA? 20 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 21 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 22 THE WITNESS: HR, our Human Resources 23 Department, would take over that issue.. 24 MR. WEISS: Q. How do you know that? 25 A. Because basically when there is an injury on 75 1 the job, I provide them that information. 2 Q. To the employees, you mean? 3 A. To HR. 4 Q. You tell HR someone is hurt and they take care 5 of it after that? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. So as you sit here today, you don't know 8 whether this incident was ever reported to OSHA? 9 A. I do not know that. 10 Q. Now, did the Tenderloin Housing Clinic take 11 any action after this incident to try to prevent 12 something like that from happening again? 13 MR.. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous 14 and incomplete hypothetical. 15 THE WITNESS: We did. 16 MR. WEISS: Q. What did you do? 17 A. Basically we posted signs on the basement 18 doors to be locked at all times and put those locks on 19 the doors. You actually have to have a key to enter. 20 Q. Okay. Anything else? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Were any kind of memos sent to employees about 23 the incident? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Any writings whatsoever generated by the THC 76 1 concerning the incident that were given to employees? 2 A. I don't remember. 3 Q. You mentioned that Colleen Carrigan's report. 4 Were there any other investigation reports generated by 5 THC concerning this incident other than the one by 6 Colleen Carrigan that you described this morning? 7 A. I don't know that. 8 Q. You never heard anything about that? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Did you ever talk to Randy Shaw about this 11 incident? 12 A. No. 13 Q. In March -- or sorry -- May of 2008, do you 14 know who the manager of the Boyd Hotel was? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Who was that? 17 A. Theresa Piece. 18 Q. And what about the Arnica (sic) Hotel in May 19 of 2008, do you know who the manager? 20 A. What hotel? 21 Q. Is it around Arnica? 22 A. I don't know. 23 Q. Oh, Seneca. How about the Seneca? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Who is the manager in May of 2008 of the 77 1 Seneca? 2 A. Tamra Razelli. 3 Q. What's the first name there? 4 A. Tamra. 5 Q. Tamra. 6 Okay. Do you know if Chanel Samuel lived in 7 either of those two hotels before living in the 8 Hartland Hotel? 9 A. She did not. 10 Q. Do you know if Chanel Samuel lived at any THC 11 property other than the Hartland Hotel prior to the 12 incident? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Do you know if Chanel Samuel floated as a 15 manager in the Seneca Hotel in May of 2008? 16 A. I'm not really sure if she worked at that 17 location. 18 Q. Do you know if Chanel Samuel ever floated at 19 the Boyd Motel in 2008? 20 A. I'm not sure. 21 Q. Is there any writing that we could look at to 22 see where Chanel Samuel worked in 2008 while she was -- 23 where she worked in 2008 for the THC? 24 A. I'm not sure. 25 Q. Would the time cards indicate at what location 78 1 an employee was working? 2 A. I'm not really sure, but there is a 3 possibility that they would. 4 Q. Would there be records of which property an 5 employee works at for the THC? 6 A. It would be in the log books at every 7 location. 8 Q. At each location? 9 A. Yes. 10 Q. What is the log book? 11 A. It's kept at the front desk. 12 Q. And what is included in the log book? 13 A. The staff. The staff signing in and out. 14 Q. Oh, I see. Is the log book only for staff 15 that are signing in and out? 16 A. Yeah. 17 Q. Okay. So we could know, for example, who 18 worked as the desk clerks at the Hartland Hotel at any 19 given time by looking at the log book? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Do you know if you have ever talked to Mydra 22 McGarr's relatives about the incident? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Who have you talked to? 25 A. One of her aunts called on the phone. 79 1 Q. I think it was Aunt Rita. 2 A. I don't remember the name. 3 Q. And who else? 4 A. Some lady that said she was her aunt. 5 Q. Did you ever talk to Mydra's sister? 6 A. I don't remember if this lady identified 7 herself as an aunt. 8 Q. Did you ever talk to a lady named Dejada? 9 A. I don't remember. 10 Q. So all I recall currently is that it was 11 someone that identified herself as Mydra's aunt? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. What was your conversation with her? 14 A. I can't remember at this time. 15 Q. Do you know if Mydra McGarr is getting 16 workers' compensation? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. How do you know that? 19 A. Basically I picked up the phone and I called 20 HR to see after the -- after the BART incident. 21 Q. Had you ever talked to any employees who 22 visited Mydra in the hospital? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Do you know if any employees did visit Mydra 25 in the hospital? 80 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Who visited her? 3 A. Jesus. 4 Q. How do you know he did that? 5 A. Because I was told. 6 Q. By Jesus? 7 A. No. 8 Q. Who told you? 9 A. He reported to his supervisor that he went to 10 visit her. 11 Q. To Colleen? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Do you know why he reported it to her? 14 A. I do not know. 15 Q. So Colleen told you? 16 A. Yeah. 17 Q. What? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And why did she tell you if you know? 20 A. I don't know. She just said that he went. 21 Q. She mentioned it one time that Jesus went to 22 visit her? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. And what did you reply, if anything? 25 A. I don't remember. It was probably something 81 1 along the lines of that was nice. 2 Q. Any discussion about what went on during this 3 hospital visit? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Do you know whether Colleen told Jesus not to 6 talk to Mydra anymore after that hospital visit? 7 A. I do not know that. 8 Q. Did anyone tell Jesus not to talk to Mydra 9 again after the incident? 10 A. I do not know that. 11 Q. Did anyone tell any THC employees not to talk 12 to Mydra again after the incident? 13 A. I do not know that. 14 Q. What? 15 A.. I do not know that. 16 Q. Have you ever seen any writings generated by 17 the THC telling employees not to discuss the incident? 18 A. No. 19 Q. Have you ever talked to James Kang about the 20 incident? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Have you ever discussed the incident with 23 Jesus Lopez? 24 A. No. 25 Q. Have you ever talked to Chanel Samuel since 82 1 the incident? 2 A. No. 3 Q. Have you ever visited her in jail since the 4 incident? 5 A. No. 6 Q. Prior to the incident, had you ever talked to 7 Chanel Samuel? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. How many times do you think? 10 A. I don't know. 11 Q. What would be the occasion to talk to Chanel 12 prior to the incident? 13 A. Whenever she came down to the office to get 14 her instructions, you know, passing, hi. 15 Q. You mean when she came down to see Colleen and 16 get an assignment? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. If you saw her, you would just say hello or 19 just chat, generally? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Did you know that prior to the incident -- 22 strike that -- the incident was on May 30 -- that, on 23 May 29, Mydra had created two incident reports 24 concerning Chanel acting aggressively towards her? 25 A. I was aware of an incident report that was 83 1 generated by Mydra. 2 Q. Did you know there were two of them on the 3 29th? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Which one -- well, what report were you aware 6 of prior to the incident on the 29th? 7 A. An issue of someone not speaking to one of 8 the parties involved and the door being slammed in 9 someone's face.. 10 Q. How did you learn about that? 11 A. Through Colleen. 12 Q. When did Colleen tell you that? 13 A. I don't remember the exact date. 14 Q. After the incident, though? 15 A. What incident? 16 Q. The incident where Mydra was getting beat with 17 a pipe in the face. 18 A. That was prior to that incident. 19 Q. Okay. So, when I talk about incident, I'm 20 going to be referring to the May 30 incident where 21 Chanel Samuel allegedly beat Mydra McGarr with a pipe. 22 Okay. So, you're aware that on May 29th, a day before 23 that incident, Mydra filed at least one incident report 24 about Chanel Samuel, correct? 25 A. Correct. 84 1 Q. And did you learn about this incident report 2 Mydra filed on the 29th? 3 A. I don't remember the exact date. 4 Q. Do you think you learned about it after the 5 incident where she was bitten by a pipe? 6 A. It was before. 7 Q. And Colleen told you about it? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. What did Colleen tell you? 10 A. Basically she gave me the -- we are going to 11 follow our investigative report. We are going to 12 speak to both parties involved and any other witness 13 to the fact that saw the slamming of the door in 14 someone's face. 15 Q. And isn't it true that Colleen had actually 16 scheduled a meeting for the day after this incident 17 report where she could meet with both parties and try 18 and figure out what's going on? 19 A. I believe so. 20 Q. And wasn't that meeting that Colleen was 21 scheduling supposed to be like maybe after -- 22 not maybe -- but the afternoon of the 30th? 23 A. I can't remember what time it was going to 24 be. Unfortunately it wasn't able to occur. 25 Q. Right, we know that. So when Colleen brought 85 1 up the incident report and said she was going to 2 schedule a meeting with the two to see what could be 3 worked out, did she tell you anything else? 4 A. No. 5 Q. Was it Colleen who was going to hold the 6 meeting for the two people after the incident report on 7 the 29th? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Now, did Colleen tell you about this on the 10 phone or did she tell you in person? 11 A. She told me in person. 12 Q. Okay. What time of day do you think it was? 13 A. I don't know. I don't remember. 14 Q. Late afternoon maybe? 15 A. I don't remember. 16 Q. Okay. Did you know there was an exchange of 17 e-mails between Colleen and Jesus about the incident 18 report Mydra McGarr filed? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Was Jesus supposed to go to this meeting with 21 Colleen and Mydra and Chanel also? 22 A. Yes, that is our procedure. 23 Q. I'm sorry? 24 A. That's our procedure. 25 Q. When you say "that's our procedure," would you 86 1 elaborate on that a little bit? 2 A. What it is, you investigate and Jesus is the 3 immediate supervisor, so he's going to take part in 4 the process. 5 Q. Okay. That makes sense. 6 And did Colleen say she was going to have 7 Jesus there or did you just assume as part of the 8 process, he would be there? 9 A. I assumed. 10 Q. Because that would be the normal -- 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. -- procedure, right? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Are employees required to undergo drug 15 testing? 16 A. No. 17 Q. Does the THC have a policy about employees 18 undergoing drug testing? 19 A. No. 20 Q. Does the THC have a policy that we don't drug 21 test employees? 22 A. No. 23 Q. So there is no policy either requiring or 24 forbidding any THC policies as far as you know? 25 A. Right. 87 1 Q. Did you ever see any performance reviews of 2 Chanel Samuel? 3 A. I don't recall. 4 Q. Did you ever see Chanel Samuel's personnel 5 file prior to today? 6 A. No. 7 Q. Did you look at Chanel Samuel's tenant file 8 prior to today? 9 A. No. 10 Q. Now, as part of this procedure, you know, so 11 Mydra generated -- I'll represent to you she did 12 generate two reports on the 29th, but let's just talk 13 about the one you are aware of. In addition to setting 14 up this meeting with the two people -- Colleen and 15 Chanel -- and inviting the general manager to the 16 meeting, is Colleen required to write Chanel up with 17 some kind of document like a verbal counseling document, 18 a verbal warning or something like that? 19 A. No. We have to make sure that we follow our 20 collective bargaining agreement. 21 Q. What union is that collective bargaining 22 agreement with? 23 A. As local SE -- I don't -- I can't remember 24 exactly which one it is. 25 Q. Is it like SEIU? 88 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. And I don't remember what local it is, but 3 it's something like SEIU or something like that? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. That makes sense. Well, this meeting that 6 Colleen was going to schedule, is that the kind of 7 thing where union reps are invited to? 8 A. That would be the first step. 9 Q. Did Colleen to your knowledge ever contact the 10 union rep to be present at the meeting she scheduled 11 for the 30th? 12 A. We're not required to contact the union rep. 13 It's up to the employee to do that. 14 Q. Oh, I see. So, the employee has the right to 15 request it? 16 A. They have to make arrangements on their own 17 if they want union representation. 18 Q. Okay. I understand. So if an employee is 19 still working out a meeting with a dispute you have with 20 some other employee, it would resolve some other 21 dispute, the employee could say, well, I want a union 22 rep, I'm going to call the union; is that what you are 23 referring to? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. I think that's right. I think you are right 89 1 on that. You know, the cameras that are in the hotel 2 there at the Hartland Hotel, how do they record what 3 they're looking at? Is it on a tape or a CD or a DVD 4 or hard drive or what? 5 A. I'm not sure. 6 Q. Okay. I can't remember. Did I ask you if you 7 saw any -- did you see any videos of the lobby from the 8 day of the event? 9 A. You did ask me that, and I did not. 10 Q.. Okay. You are right, I think I did. Does the 11 THC currently have a copy of what the various security 12 cameras at the Hartland Hotel recorded on May 30? 13 A. We do not. 14 Q. Does the DA have the only copy? 15 A. I'm not sure. 16 Q. What would be the reason why you say you don't 17 have it? 18 A. I have never seen it. So... 19 Q. Who is in charge of maintaining the video 20 camera at the Hartland Hotel? 21 A. We have an outside contractor that maintains 22 the service of the video equipment. 23 Q. And these cameras in 2008, at the Hartland 24 Hotel, didn't they record what they were pointing at, at 25 any given period of time? 90 1 A. I'm not sure if they did. 2 Q. Did you know there is a monitor behind the 3 front desk where you could see what every camera is 4 looking at? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And no one ever told you that these cameras 7 also recorded what they were pointed at? 8 A. I knew they recorded. 9 Q. And the recordings that are made, how often 10 are those erased? 11 A. I'm not really sure. 12 Q. Are the recordings kept for any period of time 13 before they're erased? 14 A. I'm not really sure. 15 Q. Okay. Do you know if when this event 16 occurred, that Chanel Samuel was a probationary 17 employee? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And how were you aware of that? 20 A. Because she was just hired and she hadn't met 21 her 90 days. 22 Q. Okay. How were you aware of when she was 23 hired? How is it you know she was hired? I now know it 24 seems obvious but I have to ask you. 25 A. We just started hiring for those floating 91 1 janitor positions. 2 Q. Okay. Did you know that during the 90-day 3 probationary period, that terminations are 4 non-grievable? 5 A. Correct. 6 Q. Do you know whether or not Chanel Samuel ever 7 received a verbal warning for the incidents of May 29 8 where Mydra said she was slamming a door and yelling? 9 A. She would not have. 10 Q. And why is that? 11 A. Because we were unable to follow the -- our 12 collective bargaining agreement, so we have to have 13 conversation with her first before any discipline can 14 be issued. 15 Q. Now, to your knowledge was Chanel Samuel 16 terminated for her employment? 17 A. She was. 18 Q. And why was that? 19 A. Based on the incident that happened on 20 May 30th. 21 Q. Was Mydra McGarr terminated as a result of the 22 May 30 incident? 23 A. No. 24 Q. Why not? 25 MR. ELLIS: Objection. It calls for 92 1 speculation. 2 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 3 THE WITNESS: Because she wasn't terminated 4 because she was injured. 5 MR. WEISS: Q. Was Chanel Samuel terminated 6 because THC determined that the alleged assault was 7 Chanel's fault? 8 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 9 MR. WEISS: It's only what you know. 10 THE WITNESS: No, because she was arrested. 11 MR. WEISS: Q. So she was terminated because 12 she was arrested. What if she is found not guilty, 13 would you hire her back? 14 MR. ELLIS: Okay. Incomplete hypothetical. 15 It calls for speculation, vague and ambiguous. 16 THE WITNESS: We would not. 17 MR. WEISS: Q. Any particular reason? 18 MR. ELLIS: Objection. It calls for 19 speculation. 20 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 21 THE WITNESS: Basically something happened 22 where someone was injured and she played a part in 23 that. 24 MR. WEISS: Q. Okay. Did you ever read James 25 Kang's incident report of May 30? 93 1 A. I don't remember. 2 MR. WEISS: Would you mark this as Exhibit D, 3 please, and hand it to the witness? 4 (Whereupon, Plaintiff's Exhibit D was marked 5 for identification.) 6 MR. WEISS: Q. Okay. Have you had a chance 7 to familiarize yourself with that, sir? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. When was the first time you saw Exhibit D? 10 A. Probably the same day of the incident or the 11 day after. I don't remember. 12 Q. Okay. And I'll represent to you -- well, 13 strike that. 14 Do you recognize James Kang's signature on 15 page one of this exhibit? 16 A. I wouldn't recognize his signature. 17 Q. Did you know that James Kang signed this 18 document? 19 A. I wouldn't know if he actually signed it. 20 Q. Okay. If you want to look at where I'm 21 pointing to on the document, you will see a thing that 22 says "Name/signature." Do you see the name "James 23 Kang"? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Do you see the signature next to it? 94 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. The first time you ever saw this document, did 3 you know it was signed by an employee of the THC? 4 A. I know he's an employee, but I didn't see him 5 sign it. 6 Q. I know you didn't see him, but you know he did 7 sign it? 8 A. I'm assuming that he did. 9 Q. Okay. 10 A. Yeah. 11 Q. Do you have any reason to believe that the 12 signature that says James Kang is a forgery? 13 A. I wouldn't know that because I don't know his 14 signature. 15 Q. Okay. Did you ever rely on this document, 16 Exhibit D, in a discussion of the incident of May 30? 17 A. I believe we did. 18 Q. So you have no reason to doubt that Exhibit D 19 is true and correct, do you? 20 A. I do not. 21 Q. Okay. Now, did you ever talk to Mr. Kang 22 about this report? 23 A. I did not. 24 Q. Did you know Mr. Kang would testify at the 25 preliminary hearing? 95 1 A. I don't know if he did or not, but I knew he 2 was one that got the subpoena. 3 Q. Do you know how many people were subpoenaed to 4 go to court that day? 5 A.. I don't know the exact number. 6 Q. Do you know if Colleen Carrigan ever 7 testified? 8 A. I don't know that. 9 Q. Do you know a tenant named Michael Williams? 10 A. I don't. 11 Q. Do you know who Steve Williams is? 12 A. I do. 13 Q. Who is he? 14 A. I believe we have a Steven Williams that is 15 an assistant manager for us. 16 Q. Okay. Was he on duty at the time this 17 incident on May 30 happened? 18 A. I don't recall. 19 Q. Did you ever talk to Mr. Williams about the 20 incident on May 30? 21 A. I have not. 22 Q. Okay. At some point was Chanel -- I think I 23 asked you this. She was terminated from this position 24 for this job, for this -- let me ask that again. 25 Was Chanel ever terminated for her employment 96 1 at THC? 2 A. Yes, she was. 3 Q. And why is that, do you know? 4 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Asked and answered. 5 MR. WEISS: Did I ask that? I don't remember. 6 Sorry. 7 Q. When was it that Chanel was terminated from 8 her employment at THC? 9 A. I don't remember. 10 Q. Just sometime after the incident of May 30? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. Did you recommend she be terminated or did 13 someone else recommend that? 14 A. I can't remember. I think it was -- I don't 15 remember. 16 Q. Wouldn't you ultimately be her supervisor, 17 Chanel Samuel? 18 A. Me. 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. I'm responsible for our whole department. 21 Q. So that would include floating janitors? 22 A. She's under property management umbrella, so 23 I am the lead dog. 24 Q. Okay. And the Alpha dog, we'll call you. 25 A. Okay. 97 1 Q. People have called me a dog. But, anyway, 2 were you the one that recommended the chain of command 3 that she be terminated? 4 A. Yeah. 5 Q. Okay. And was there any kind of paper work 6 that had to be filled out for the termination? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. What kind of paper work had to be filled out? 9 A. We start off with the request for termination 10 form. 11 Q. Okay. Anything else? 12 A. Time sheet. 13 Q. When you say "time sheet," what do you refer 14 to, like any particular day? 15 A. A record of the hours she had worked. 16 Q. What would you do with that? 17 A. Basically I would sign it and we would send 18 it in our inner-office memo to our Human Resources 19 Department. 20 Q. Is that so she can get her final paycheck? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Is that why you would send it in an 23 inner-office memo over to HR? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. What? 98 1 A. Yes. 2 Q. Any other paper work? 3 A. No. 4 Q. And did you sign the request for termination? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. And that form requires some kind of reason, I 7 guess, doesn't it? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. Okay. And so you would have been the one to 10 fill in the reason? 11 A. It would have been Colleen that would have 12 generated that termination request form. 13 Q. I see. And then you just reviewed it and 14 signed it? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Okay. Is it the policy of THC -- strike that. 17 Was it the policy of THC in May of 2008 that 18 supervisors and managers are the foundation of the 19 safety program? 20 A. Could you repeat that? 21 Q. Yes. What was the policy of the THC at least 22 in May of 2008, that supervisors and managers are the 23 foundation of the safety program? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. And supervisors and managers are responsible 99 1 to enforce all company safety rules consistently and 2 fairly? 3 A. Yes. 4 Q. Was it also the responsibility of supervisors 5 and managers in May of 2008 to inspect work areas often 6 to detect unsafe conditions and work practices utilizing 7 company staff inspection checklist as required? 8 A. Yes. 9 Q. And in May of 2008, were supervisors and 10 managers required to provide complete safety training to 11 employees prior to the assignment of duties? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And further, was it the responsibility of 14 supervisors and managers of the THC in May of 2008 to 15 familiarize themselves with company safety policies, 16 programs and procedures? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Were there such things of the THC in May of 19 2008 called safety committees? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And one of the things that a safety committee 22 meeting would do would be to discuss actions and 23 corrective action taken? 24 A. Yes. 25 Q. Was there a safety committee meeting 100 1 concerning the event of May 30? 2 A. I'm not really sure. 3 Q. What? 4 A. I'm not really sure if there was a meeting 5 set up based upon that incident. 6 Q. Who's on the safety committee? 7 A. It's a variety of folks. Every location 8 has -- every property has a member on a safety meeting 9 committee meeting. It could be anyone from a desk 10 clerk, janitor to a maintenance person. 11 Q. Do they meet on a monthly basis? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Are safety committee meetings documented? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. Do you ever attend safety committee meetings? 16 A. Every once in awhile I have. 17 Q. Did you ever attend a safety committee meeting 18 on the event of May 30? 19 A. I have not. 20 Q. Oh, I know what I was going to ask. Did 21 anyone report the events of May 30 to the THC's 22 insurance carrier? 23 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 24 THE WITNESS: I don't know. 25 MR. WEISS: Q. Did you make any reports to 101 1 the workers' comp carrier about the event of May 30? 2 A. I did not. 3 Q. Did you make reports to any liability 4 insurance carrier of the THC concerning the event of 5 May 30? 6 A. I did not. 7 Q. Would that be the job of any particular person 8 for THC? 9 A. I'm not really sure. 10 Q. Does the THC have something called a Tarasoff 11 Warning Policy? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. And can you tell me what that is briefly? 14 A. It's basically when any threats of violence 15 are made against staff or tenants reported to the 16 police department. 17 Q. Let me ask you about Tarasoff Warning Policy. 18 In May of 2008, under the THC's Tarasoff Warning Policy, 19 is it true that if a person makes a serious threat of 20 physical violence against a reasonably identifiable 21 victim, the case manager should immediately contact his 22 or her supervisor? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Is it also true in May of 2008 that under the 25 Tarasoff policy, if the supervisor is unavailable, the 102 1 support services director should be contacted? 2 A. That is the policy. 3 Q. Is it also the policy that if the support 4 services director's unavailable, that deputy director 5 for client services should be contacted? 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. Was it also the policy in May of 2008 under 8 the Tarasoff policy that the case manager and 9 supervisor shall immediately design a plan for providing 10 notification to the intended victim and to the police? 11 A. Yes, that's the policy. 12 Q.. Did the THC in May of 2008 have something 13 called a Tarasoff Report Form? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. That form should include information regarding 16 the threats, the name and addresses of the persons 17 making the threats, and exact description of the threat? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. So if a case manager heard one employee 20 threaten another employee with violence, what should the 21 case manager do? 22 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 23 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous, calls for 24 speculation. 25 THE WITNESS: I would not know what their 103 1 procedures are in that department. 2 MR. WEISS: Q. Well, I mean should they -- 3 okay. Let me give you a little different question. 4 The case manager witnessed an employee raising her 5 voice and telling another employee I'm going to beat 6 your ass. What should the case manager do to follow 7 the Tarasoff policy at the THC? 8 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 9 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 10 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't know. 11 MR. WEISS: Q. Have you ever seen the 12 Tarasoff Report Form that the THC employs? 13 A. I have. 14 Q. Have you ever -- did you ever know a guy named 15 Brian Samuel? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. And who is he? 18 A. He was an employee of ours. 19 Q. Did he manage any particular property? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. Which one was that? 22 A. The Jefferson. 23 Q. Did you know whether or not Brian Samuel was 24 the father of Chanel Samuel? 25 A. He never told me that he was. 104 1 Q. I know. I'm just asking if you knew that. 2 A. No. 3 Q. You might not? 4 A. It would be based upon rumor, so I wouldn't 5 know. 6 Q. Are family members that work for the THC 7 allowed to work at the same location together? 8 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 9 THE WITNESS: If we have that knowledge, they 10 won't be working together. 11 MR. WEISS: Q. Because doesn't that come 12 under the THC nepotism policy? 13 A. Yes. 14 Q. Does the THC have a policy called threat of 15 violence in the workplace policy? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. Is it part of the policy -- strike that. 18 The THC's threat of violence in the workplace 19 policy, is it the policy of THC that the protection of 20 staff from harm is of the utmost importance? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Is it also the policy of THC that all threats 23 to an employee should be taken seriously and responded 24 to immediately? 25 A. That's our policy. 105 1 Q. Is it also the policy of the THC that all 2 efforts shall be made to provide the employee with a 3 temporary work site that will allow him or her to 4 continue with his or her assigned duties as usual? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Is it further the policy at THC that if this 7 is impossible, what I just read you, the direct 8 supervisor will plan out a work situation for the 9 employee that is as similar as possible? 10 A. Yes. 11 Q. Is it true that in May of 2008 every employee, 12 regardless of classification, is required to submit a 13 time sheet to his or her manager twice a month? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. You know concerning the eviction of Chanel 16 Samuel, any reason you went for abandonment, rather 17 than three-day notice? 18 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Asked and answered. 19 MR. WEISS: If you can answer. 20 THE WITNESS: It's more cost effective from 21 our part if we go with abandonment and it's also faster. 22 MR. WEISS: Q. Does the THC hire outside 23 counsel to handle unlawful detainer cases? 24 A. Yes, we do. 25 Q. So what you are saying, you can do abandonment 106 1 in-house rather than hiring a lawyer to do it? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. That's why you are saying it's less expensive 4 to go by abandonment? 5 A. Yes. 6 Q. Now, if Chanel Samuel had been let out of jail 7 after the incident, let's say two weeks after the 8 incident, would she have been allowed to come back to 9 live at the Hartland Hotel? 10 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Incomplete 11 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous, calls for 12 speculation. 13 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 14 THE WITNESS: Yes, she would have. 15 MR. WEISS: Q. And why is that? 16 MR. ELLIS: Same objections. 17 MR. WEISS: You can answer. 18 THE WITNESS: Because she was entitled to her 19 place where she lived until we do the unlawful 20 detainer. 21 MR. WEISS: Q. Oh, I see. So in other words, 22 if let's say in my question of Chanel had come back two 23 weeks after the May 30 incident, she would have lived 24 there only so long as it took for you to give her a 25 three-day notice and complete the eviction process? 107 1 A. Yes, we would have followed the unlawful 2 detainer process. 3 MR. WEISS: Okay. I'm going to take a short 4 break and look at my notes. 5 (Whereupon, a break was taken from 2:17 p.m. 6 to 2:27 p.m.) 7 MR. WEISS: Yeah, we're going to be done very 8 shortly. 9 Q. Does the THC give any thought to scheduling 10 employees that don't get along to work at the same 11 place? 12 A. We do if we are aware of it. 13 Q. Okay. Do you know when Chanel Samuel moved 14 into the Hartland Hotel in 2008? 15 A. I do not know.. 16 Q. Okay. We had -- I think I saw a lease maybe 17 the middle of March of '08. I'll just represent that to 18 you. I know you don't personally know. But, when a 19 tenant moves in say in March of 2008, do they have to 20 pay any rent up front? 21 A. They do. 22 Q. Is that best standard operating procedure, 23 sign the lease, you are accepted, give me a rent check? 24 A. Yes. Normally, you go to housing, you pay 25 your rent at our Housing Office. You don't pay 108 1 anything to the GM unless when you -- basically we 2 have inherited tenants that are there before we 3 acquired the building. You pay your rent at that 4 location. 5 Q. Right. They call it MPP or something like 6 that? 7 A. Yes. 8 Q. Right. So, let's say someone moves into the 9 Hartland Hotel in March of '08, they are accepted as a 10 tenant, they would go fill out their lease and pay rent 11 at the Housing Office? 12 A. Yes. 13 Q. Okay. And unless a tenant needs some sort of 14 assistance with rent, is it the standard procedure that 15 in March of '08, the tenant would pay the first month's 16 rent when the lease was signed? 17 A. Yes. 18 Q. Okay. And is any security deposit required? 19 A. No. We wouldn't charge any security deposit. 20 Q. So just first month's rent is all? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. And subsequently after the tenant goes to the 23 Housing Office, signs the lease, pays the first month's 24 rent, where are the rent checks paid after that? 25 A. At the location where he initially paid the 109 1 rent. 2 Q. So if it's a Housing Office, they just go back 3 to the Housing Office? 4 A. Yes. 5 Q. Wouldn't all the new tenants in March of 2008 6 start out at the Housing Office by paying the rent, 7 sign the lease? 8 A. Correct. 9 Q. Okay. And so when would a tenant pay at a 10 hotel instead? 11 A. They would never pay at a hotel unless they 12 were an inherited tenant or they had some mobility 13 issues where they couldn't make it to the Housing 14 Office. 15 Q. So given your information that you just gave 16 me, wouldn't Chanel Samuel have had to pay her first 17 month's rent at the Housing Office when she signed her 18 lease? 19 A. That's normally what we ask them to do. 20 Q. And so you would know right away at the time 21 of signing the lease whether the tenant paid any rent, 22 correct? 23 A. Yes. 24 Q. Because I just can't figure out why Chanel 25 Samuel never paid any rent and no one knew about it. 110 1 Do you know why that is? 2 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 3 THE WITNESS: I can -- basically, she was an 4 employee of us -- with us, that was in need of housing 5 and we reached out to help her. 6 MR. WEISS: Q. Oh, I see she was hired first 7 and then also needed housing; is that what happened? 8 A. No. She was hired just like we do with any 9 other employee, if you have issues of housing, you get 10 evicted or whatnot or become homeless, you come to us 11 and you ask for help and we try to help you. 12 Q. And if they don't have the rent right up 13 front, you just, say, well, you are working for us, 14 we'll work it out? 15 A. Yes. 16 Q. Is that what happened to Chanel, do you know? 17 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation. 18 THE WITNESS: I'm assuming that it was the 19 issue. 20 MR. WEISS: Q. But you didn't really know? 21 A. No. 22 Q. Now, is Mydra McGarr, when she gets better, 23 welcome to come back to work at the Tenderloin Housing 24 Clinic in her old job, a job she could do? 25 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Vague and ambiguous, 111 1 calls for speculation and incomplete hypothetical. 2 MR. WEISS: Let me re-ask it. 3 Q. If Mydra McGarr was released to work by her 4 doctor, would she be eligible to come back to work at 5 the THC in some capacity? 6 MR. ELLIS: Objection. Speculation, incomplete 7 hypothetical, vague and ambiguous. 8 THE WITNESS: I assume she is. 9 MR. WEISS: I mean, if you don't know, that's 10 okay. 11 Q. Does the THC let employees pay their monthly 12 rent in two payments like the first week of the month 13 and the third week of the month? 14 A. Our rent is due on the 1st and 15th. 15 Q. 1st and the 15th? 16 A. Yeah. 17 Q. So every two weeks, you paid your rent? 18 A. Yes, 1st and 15th. 19 Q. Do you know who Eddie Husband is? 20 A. Yes. 21 Q. And who is he? 22 A.. He's a case manager. 23 Q. Did you ever talk to him about the incident on 24 May 30? 25 A. I never have. 112 1 Q. Do you know if anyone talked to him about 2 knowledge of any conflict between Mydra and Chanel? 3 A. I wouldn't know that. 4 Q. Did you ever learn from any source that there 5 was indeed some sort of conflict between Mydra and 6 Chanel prior to May 29? 7 MR. ELLIS: Other than from me. 8 THE WITNESS: No. 9 MR. WEISS: Okay. All right. That's all the 10 questions I have. 11 MR. ELLIS: Very good. Thank you. 12 (Whereupon, proceedings concluded at 13 2:34 p.m.) 14 15 --o0o-- 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 113 1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) SS 2 COUNTY OF ___________________________ ) 3 4 5 I, the undersigned, declare under penalty 6 of perjury that I have read the foregoing 7 transcript, and I have made any 8 corrections, additions or deletions that I 9 was desirous of making; that the foregoing 10 is a true and correct transcript of my 11 testimony contained therein. 12 13 EXECUTED this _______ day of _____________, 14 2009, at ____________________, 15 _________________. 16 [City] [State] 17 18 19 _____________________________________ 20 JAMES HOLLAND 21 22 23 24 25 114 1 STATE OF CALIFORNIA ) 2 ) ss. 3 COUNTY OF SAN FRANCISCO ) 4 5 6 I, DEBRA L. ACEVEDO-RAMIREZ, hereby certify: 7 That I am a Certified Shorthand Reporter of the 8 State of California; 9 That in pursuance of my duties as such, I attended 10 the proceedings in the foregoing matter and reported 11 all of the proceedings and testimony taken therein; 12 That the foregoing is a full, true and correct 13 transcript of my shorthand notes so taken. 14 Dated: 15 16 17 18 ________________________________________ DEBRA L. ACEVEDO-RAMIREZ, RPR, CSR 7692 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 115